F**k the snare mic.

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chessrock

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Why do I even bother micing the snare?

It's not like it paints a whole new perspective on things that the overheads aren't already bringing to the table.

From now on, it's two overheads and a kick and I'll be done with it.
 
What ever works for you my friend. Personally, I still prefere not only a snare tight mic but tight mics on the toms too. A lot of the sound is indeed the overheads but for that brutal power, the tight mics provide that for me. Also the style of music dictates how I mic a kit. Jazz/blues I use overheads, a snare mic, one in the kick and one out in front of the kit. That's about as few mics as I like on a kit.
 
Why is it do you think that people put so many mics on a kit, yet when it comes time for vocals, I've never seen more than one mic at a time. Every now and then, I'll see someone mic the front and back of a guitar amp, and two mics aren't at all uncommon on accoustic guitar.

So why is it, do you think, that most people consider three-four mics to be the defacto "minimum" on drums?

It's not like someone will have a hard time hearing the snare or even the tom if it isn't mic'ed individually. :D

A couple of overheads for stereo image makes total sense. And a dedicated kick mic is a very good idea, I'll admit, just because you kinda' have to muck with it a lot of the time to get it sound good.
 
chessrock said:
Why is it do you think that people put so many mics on a kit, yet when it comes time for vocals, I've never seen more than one mic at a time
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Basiclly, because you only have one mouth for sound to come out of vs a drum kit which produces sound from not only each individual drum but from the top and bottom head. Acoustic guitar produces sound from the entire instrument.
Like I said, for me it also depends on the type of music I'm recording. Lighter stuff, less mics. More intense style like hard rock/metel I prefere tight mics to get the drums to sound like canons going off. Now I know the Bonham stoies of three mics on the kit. If I had a drummer that can hit that hard on a kit set up in the great room of a castle, I'd consider cutting down on the amount of mics I'd put up.
:D :D :D
 
Chessrock, I admire the hell out of you. Those overheads better take a while to place. I mean overhead too high and mush, to low and direction becomes very critical. It would suit my music fine. I still don't think I'd go less than four mics for any type of music...I'm not that brave. If the snare dies in the mix it's not even about "cannons", there is no snare, I want a mic close to that snare.
 
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It appears you didn't do much drum recording during the 70's and 80's.....where you could put 'outside-train-station' reverb on the snare only, 'conductor-yelling-ambience' on the toms, and 'dry-as-a-pullman-car-outta-booze kick drum sound.

not to mention adding some 'unnatural sizzle' to the cymbals without having the snare rip your head off.
 
My point is that I'm already picking up plenty of snare, even without the snare mic. Add to it the fact that the snare mic picks up a lot of other things I don't need it to, and don't even want it to.

The typical snare mic, take the sm57 for example, is not very well suited for more delicate tasks like micing hi-hat. Particularly when it's facing the opposite direction from it. :D

Think about it. Hypothetical scenario: Imagine you were to mic only a hi-hat. I don't know why you'd be doing it, but let's just say you were making a "hi-hat" compilation/greatest hits album. Would you use the following technique? :

* small-diaphragm condenser about 3-5 feet directly overhead

* sm-57 pointing away from it, in the opposite direction towards the floor. And blend to taste.

I don't think so. At least I would hope not. Yet, that's exactly what we wind up doing (in a sense) when we mic the snare, because you can't mic the snare without a ton of hihat bleed.

Alright, I suppose there is such a thing as a noise gate. But think about this . . . do you like the sound of a gated snare? Getting beyond the threshold of the gate requires a millisecond or so, which means you lose at least a portion of that initial attack. Then of course you lose the ring after the gate kicks in.

So instead of getting a solid "thwonk!" what you kinda' wind up with is more like a "won!" And during simultanious snare/hi-hat/cymbal hits, you get more of a "sssswwwiiii WON!"

Which kinda' brings us full circle to the "that's why you use overheads" thing.

And my reply to that is . . . p-r-e-c-i-c-e-l-y
 
Track Rat said:
Acoustic guitar produces sound from the entire instrument.
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Exactly my point. So why don't you see dedicated E-string (high and low) mics, A-sting mics, etc. When you think of it, there are different tones produced not only from the individual strings, but from out of the sound hole (or holeS if you're playing an Ovation) and even inside the guitar itself.

Yet I generall see two mics on them at the very most.

Actually, the bulk of the time, I only see one, and it's pointed at the 12th fret of all places. Kinda' funny when you think of it. I never hear any non-engineer types talking about "how beautiful that 12th fret sounds" on their new $1000 Martin. "Man, that guitar has one suh-moh-kin beautiful 12th fret tone, let me tell you!" :D

A kit is a kit. It's one entity comprised of several components, just like an accoustic guitar . . . and even the human voice. Why not mic it that way?
 
stick a 184 or a 451 on the hh...watch out for the air 'whoosh'....and watch your polar patterns better on your snare mic. If you snare is ending up too loud, then the drummer has some balance issues within his playing...or the kit just sucks.

also...you might "want" to mic your HH because you might prefer the 'tighter' sound it provides, rather than a more ambient sound with the overheads, or the off axis sound of a dynamic mic. a sd condensor works best imo.

however...you are addressing some of the more 'common' problems when mic'ing drums....like hh bleed, etc.
 
chessrock said:

From now on, it's two overheads and a kick and I'll be done with it.
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however...going back to your original stmnt.... with the 'right' drummer, 'right' kit, and 'right' room... nothing wrong with that approach either. A lot of "IFs" in there however.
 
chessrock said:



Actually, the bulk of the time, I only see one, and it's pointed at the 12th fret of all places. Kinda' funny when you think of it. I never hear any non-engineer types talking about "how beautiful that 12th fret sounds" on their new $1000 Martin. "Man, that guitar has one suh-moh-kin beautiful 12th fret tone, let me tell you!" :D

A kit is a kit. It's one entity comprised of several components, just like an accoustic guitar . . . and even the human voice. Why not mic it that way?
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and....how often do you stick your head into a kick drum to listen to it...or for that matter, just off the head of the snare drum?

also...it would appear that a guitar is easier to balance the different strings (and sound output areas) amongst each other VS the different drums making up an entire drum kit....not to mention the cymbals...
 
Have to stick my head in and disturb you fellas, but thanks James. I think that file will help me.

Matty
 
Even with the three mic technique I would at least mic the snare and use up one track, often you will wish you did.
 
It depends:

With the right drummer, on the right kit, in the right room, with the right mic, in the right place, with the right compression you really don't need to mic that snare. :D

When all I had was my 4-track cassette and my Rat Shack omnis, I would mic the kit with one mic directly above my drummer's head. On the heavier tunes I would add a 57 on the kick for more punch. Got pretty good results that way. Now I've got a couple ECM8000's and still have no problem with weak snare sounds. But then, my drummer can hit a rim shot consistently on every hit. With a fresh ambassador head torqued down on his 14x6 bell-brass full-floater you'd better not stand too close without plugs in! :D
 
I have been using overheads only in a log cabin with a brick floor and woooooow!The sound is just wonderful.
 
I usually set up some M/S overheads, as explained here :

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=64567&highlight=m/s

and I make DAMN sure that just those two mics will make a decent drum sound on their own.

But I still stick hordes of mics on everything. I may not use them but its always better to cut long. I mic snare tops bottoms, toms, hats, rides, sometimes cymbals, two mics on the kick, etc...

usually micing drums ISNT about making an album where the drums sound just like they do in the room. Very very few albums sound like that. People want glamour and glitz, exaggeration.

A lot of people fall into the minimal mic trap because of all the trendies who say " yeah we all recorded in one room, no headphones, first take, blah blah blah, are usually totally full of shit anyway, and Ive never heard one of THOSE guys' albums where the drums sound anything like drums in reality. Blind Melon and Tool are two perfect examples of this to me. As they are the two bands that talk the most shit about " yuck its overproduced bro " and yet their sounds are so far from reality.

You can always NOT use the tracks later, whats the harm in laying em down at the start?
 
pipelineaudio said:
You can always NOT use the tracks later, whats the harm in laying em down at the start?
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I suppose nothing...but possibly wasted effort. I would tend to think the tracking engineer would want to get the best sound at the start, and by using the 'correct' amount of mics for the situation. Deciding whether or not you might use a particular drum track or not, later on, seems like you are leaving a lot of questions unanswered....ones that may not easily be answered later on. I think you need to get it 'right' at every stage of recording, and not leave stuff of that magnitude to later decisions. But of course, anything goes, I suppose. Using ambient room mics or not, would be a different situation, but deciding whether you want the snare track or not. I'd think not unless you just put verb on that track for an effect or something of that nature. But then again, dictating what is "correct" on how to record drums, is completely wrong in my book too!!
 
Nothing wrong with a 3 mic configuration if your happy but......

What happends when you need to Eq your snare...cut offending content? boost to bring a sizzle? make it fatter? fuller?.
What happends when you want to optimize the snare sound? add effects that should effect only the snare? (like running two different reverbs on the snare?. What if you do want a gate on the toms but NOT the snare?.
What if your outlook on drums is that the snare and kick hold the song together and the OH's should only be an addition to the overall sound?. What if the OH's need a different type of compression?.What happends if the snare sound sucks done by somebody else or there is no other snare in sight and you need to trigger a better sounding snare ?

And there is more......Lets not forget impressing the client.......
 
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