Electoral College & Trump's 2016

Snowman999

Member
When Bush beat Gore I was one of the people yelling "popular vote needs to be the way to go." Not one person even tried to explain the electoral college to me. Then I was watching The Five and Greg Gutfeld explained it beautifully. Unfortunately, I couldn't find his monologue. So, I chose this one. It's stale, but she explains it fairly well. The electoral college is GENIUS and will never be changed. It's all in here why.

For liberals who don't know, give it 5 minutes with an open mind.


The 2016 election had Clinton with 3 million more votes. Those votes came from one state California. If you removed the two largest states CA and TX from the vote, there is NO combination where Clinton has more votes than Trump. It's for this reason that the electoral college exists.

Presidential Election Results: Donald J. Trump Wins – Election Results 2016 – The New York Times
 

RFR

Well-known member
First off there is a massive lie that is constantly being spread......... our ‘democracy’

As Ben Franklin said, democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner. Gee, I wonder how that vote will turn out.

The ‘popular’ vote would mean something if we were a democracy..... but we’re not.

Our country is not at all a democracy, but a Republic, and that’s where the electoral college comes into play.

A democracy means 51 crazy people now get to enact their will over 49 sane people.

The newest lie being told is that the American people have a say in a Supreme Court appointee. That’s never been the case. President appoints, Senate confirms.

But in a dumbed down society, there are those who willfully deceive for the benefit of their own agendas.
 

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner....A democracy means 51 crazy people now get to enact their will over 49 sane people.
Yeah, democracy stinks.
But it stinks less than its competitors.
 

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
The newest lie being told is that the American people have a say in a Supreme Court appointee. That’s never been the case. President appoints, Senate confirms.
"The people" have much less say in their politics and how it's enacted than they don't ! :drunk:
 

Snowman999

Member
First off there is a massive lie that is constantly being spread......... our ‘democracy’

As Ben Franklin said, democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner. Gee, I wonder how that vote will turn out.

The ‘popular’ vote would mean something if we were a democracy..... but we’re not.

Our country is not at all a democracy, but a Republic, and that’s where the electoral college comes into play.

A democracy means 51 crazy people now get to enact their will over 49 sane people.

The newest lie being told is that the American people have a say in a Supreme Court appointee. That’s never been the case. President appoints, Senate confirms.

But in a dumbed down society, there are those who willfully deceive for the benefit of their own agendas.

It's still the best system out there.
 

Snowman999

Member
But...... it would be better if the corruption and lies were gone. ;)

When that happens, the world will end a second later.

Give the nicest, respectful, care giving person a leadership role, and they'll become a scumbag.

You can see the ill effect in a band effort. Imagine being a lawmaker with millions of peoples lives at your finger tips.
 

RFR

Well-known member
When Bush beat Gore I was one of the people yelling "popular vote needs to be the way to go." Not one person even tried to explain the electoral college to me. Then I was watching The Five and Greg Gutfeld explained it beautifully.
Per this section of your original post, you’re confessing to be one of those who up until recently fell into the lie of our system being a ‘democracy’

No shame in that. Due to the educational system and the lying ass scumbag politicians millions wrongfully believe our system is a democracy when it’s not.
All we hear on TV is ‘save our democracy’ our ‘democracy is at risk,’ (insert favorite hated politician) is ‘trying to destroy our democracy’ etc.

They know damn well our system of governance is a Republic.

But preaching democracy is used to make people feel like they have a voice and to create outrage and division. Of course it’s been going on for decades, it’s not a recent manifestation.

Witness the loss of Hillary..... from the numbers, if you believe they’re true, won the popular vote (democracy).
But Trump won the election because of the electoral college. (Republic)

So for the last four years we’ve had massive division in the country with the liberals feeling that the election was stolen from them, that Trump is an illegitimate president, and they’ve been doing everything in their power to get rid of him. The bullshit this has caused in our country has been immense.

All based on the misinfo campaign based on dissemination of the idea we’re a democracy.

There has even been serious talk of getting rid of the electoral college so something like Trump never happens again.

A Republic, and an Electoral College is so the farmers in Iowa don’t get shafted by the carpet baggers of New York. In a true democracy all you have is majority rule, which is in essence mob rule.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
Actually the USA is both a Republic and a Democracy...there's no misinformation about that.

A democracy doesn't just mean majority rule by the people...it also exists when we have elected officials that "vote" on our behalf...which is different from a "direct democracy" where majority always rule and the minority assumes their needs will be considered, but without any guarantees.

Here's a quote that describes what we have in the USA:

"The United States is both a democracy and a republic. Democracies and republics are both forms of government in which supreme power resides in the citizens. The word republic refers specifically to a government in which those citizens elect representatives who govern according to the law. The word democracy can refer to this same kind of representational government, or it can refer instead to what is also called a direct democracy, in which the citizens themselves participate in the act of governing directly."

At some levels of government and for some things...majority rules, like in local/state governments, when we officials are elected by the majority vote of the people. We also directly elect some of our federal government officials...Senators and Congressmen/women...Senators representing whole states, Congressmen/women representing specific state districts.

Those are all processes of a democracy.

For other things...those elected representatives make many decisions for us...and one aspect of that is to keep a balance that serves the entire population, not just a majority...and that makes the USA also a republic, and why the president is chosen by the Electoral College rather than popular vote, so that the entire population is represented, not just a majority.

All the talk of the Democrats attempting to change the rules if they attain complete control after November...would pretty much put all decision making in the hands of a majority rule...and the minority would have to accept it, good or bad, with no real voice anymore.
The Democrats are looking to ruin one of the best systems of government...even if sometimes it's not perfect, it's really the fairest one.

It's kinda funny to me that the Dems, who are supposedly the champions of the minorities...could end up with a majority rule system....so then the minorities would have to accept whatever they dish out...and to date, the Dems, as much as they depend on the minorities...have not done much for them other than to pander when they need their votes.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
Not to change the OP subject...but this is what you get with absolute majority rule...you get mob rule:

WATCH: Rioters Topple Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt Statues in Portland; Museum Windows Smashed

I just wonder if there isn't anything that these rioters are NOT going to protest...and at which point they, or the rest of Portland citizens, will have had enough of the anarchistic madness that has taken over the city, with ZERO intervention by the government officials in charge.

None of these people will be prosecuted by the Dem/Lib government...and eventually they will be coming to your neighborhood the longer their actions are condoned.

Of course...if you don't wear a mask in some places...they will arrest you for that.

:facepalm:
 

Orson

Member
P In a true democracy all you have is majority rule, which is in essence mob rule.

There is no other way and votes on anything on the planet are decided by counting the highest number of votes in favour. If you do not like this or accept this then you are 'undemocratic'.

Of course each country has introduced a system so this process is skewed in favour of those in charge at that time. But then some time in the future one party doesnt like it or wants it changed.

A new method is called in modern terms as proportional reputation. This means no matter how many voted for a candidate, there will be someone there to represent everybody. In which case you just have a mess where they all do dodgy deals to back one candidate in return for power or money. Thus is born the political class where they get jobs for life.
 
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miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
Let me pose a question.
Why do we need a government in the first place??????

I don't know if you're being serious here...I mean, I agree that less government is better than more...but if there was no government at all, who gets to make rules and then enforce them, because if you leave that up to each individual, I don't think people would "do the right thing"...just consider the crime rates, they would explode.

Also...what about out infrastructure?
Some of it is in disrepair now...imagine if there was no government at all. Who will go out there to repair the roads and bridges..etc...?
 

RFR

Well-known member
I’m being full on serious in asking the question. It’s something to think about.

Hundreds, and thousands of years of conditioning into the idea that we ‘need’ them, has indeed created a mindset that we need them.

Yet the world isn’t in a better place because of it.

Technology innovations have brought improvement, but that’s due to individuals.

Government keeps growing and makes many things worse. Then to cover up their own failures, they claim they need more money, more resources, more agencies, etc.

In the book the Grapes of Wrath, the government was described as an uncaring monster that just needed to eat.

Well that monster certainly has been doing a lot of eating.....and it sure has grown. :)
 

DM60

Well-known member
I’m being full on serious in asking the question. It’s something to think about.

Hundreds, and thousands of years of conditioning into the idea that we ‘need’ them, has indeed created a mindset that we need them.

Yet the world isn’t in a better place because of it.

Technology innovations have brought improvement, but that’s due to individuals.

Government keeps growing and makes many things worse. Then to cover up their own failures, they claim they need more money, more resources, more agencies, etc.

In the book the Grapes of Wrath, the government was described as an uncaring monster that just needed to eat.

Well that monster certainly has been doing a lot of eating.....and it sure has grown. :)

I won't go into a long diatribe, while I agree less is more, nothing is still nothing. We may be now into the the "over governed" phase of society. Like the 14th century I think Austrian king (I can't remember his name, but he made like 5+ new laws everyday) he meant well, but sometime it can be too much. For examples, he made a law where all caskets had to be reusable. So they made a trap door in the bottom. (If you guys can remember his name, even Google couldn't find it for me).

But do feel we are pushing the point where we are being over governed. Do we take care of everyone, do we tell people, you fit in this square and you fit in this round hole, because we know better?

Questions are like women, once you know them, you are less interested.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
I’m being full on serious in asking the question. It’s something to think about.

Hundreds, and thousands of years of conditioning into the idea that we ‘need’ them, has indeed created a mindset that we need them.

Yet the world isn’t in a better place because of it.

Technology innovations have brought improvement, but that’s due to individuals.

Government keeps growing and makes many things worse. Then to cover up their own failures, they claim they need more money, more resources, more agencies, etc.

In the book the Grapes of Wrath, the government was described as an uncaring monster that just needed to eat.

Well that monster certainly has been doing a lot of eating.....and it sure has grown. :)

OK...but how do you think we would get on without any government...?

It's nice to just say "we don't need government"...the same way the far left says we don't police...but then there has to be some explanation of how things would work without any government...so what's your vision?

I think we don't need MORE government control of our lives, and we can certainly streamline what we already have...but I can't see how it would work without any.
 

RFR

Well-known member
.so what's your vision?

Haha! Sorry I don’t have one. Not quite smart enough to develop something new and better.

I do however know the current system doesn’t work. For us anyway. For the politicians, bankers and major corporations it’s working just fine.

But let me go into the past for a minute. Back in the day where I grew up, we don’t didn’t have a formal government run fire Dept.

We had a fire station with a couple full time firemen and the building was on a big piece of property. It got rented out as a pumpkin patch, summer fairs, music events, traveling circuses, car shows, bake sales, Xmas tree sales Christmas events, etc.
That empty lot was in use year round and was known as a community gathering place.

The proceeds funded the fire department year round.

As to firefighters, there were plenty of volunteer firemen in the town. When the alarm went off, all over town these guys would put the red light on top of their car and speed off to work.

That system may by modern standards seem ancient. But it worked. There were very little issues with fires and when the need arose they were effectively put out.

Granted, this was a different time and in a smaller town, but the key takeaway from this is that we took care of our own affairs.

People took ownership of their community.

Now we expect the authorities to take care of it.

I believe we could, and would, take care of our own affairs, and a government of sorts would be established, but on a local regional level

Instead of rule from the top down, it would be a local system.

Just like with cell phones where we’ve forgotten numbers and rely on voice dialing,
we’ve forgotten how to take responsibility for our lives, and communities and rely on governments to take care of things.


Anyway just some off the cuff thoughts. :)
 

Snowman999

Member
I’m being full on serious in asking the question. It’s something to think about.

Hundreds, and thousands of years of conditioning into the idea that we ‘need’ them, has indeed created a mindset that we need them.

Yet the world isn’t in a better place because of it.

Technology innovations have brought improvement, but that’s due to individuals.

Government keeps growing and makes many things worse. Then to cover up their own failures, they claim they need more money, more resources, more agencies, etc.

In the book the Grapes of Wrath, the government was described as an uncaring monster that just needed to eat.

Well that monster certainly has been doing a lot of eating.....and it sure has grown. :)

If government went away, would we suddenly find Utopia?

I think you merely just have to look at what happened in Seattle's Autonomous Zone. It took a few weeks before people were killed.

No government, no police, no laws. No stores. No food. Then what? Open the prisons and let everyone out. I'm fine with every person for themselves. We could go out and murder with impunity. Why not? No one except someone willing to kill us could stop us.

Now that sounds like fun!

We have so much free time we can think about crap like this. But I ask you this -

There was a time when the Chinese didn't know Europe existed. Middle East didn't know the Africans. In the US, there were Indian tribes that didn't know there was anyone else. There was a time when every civilization didn't know about other civilizations. Yet, everyone is similar. They all eat meat, they all use fire, they all have language, governments, clothing, markets, trade, religion, alcohol (Think about that. Every civilization figured out how to get fucked up)... How is that possible? There was a time religion ruled every facet of existence. There were different Gods, but life still revolved around them.

There's a reason there're governments, someone has to lead. Someone has to take the responsibility when the shit hits the fan. Every business has its own form of government, the owner - managers - workers.

Government is a necessity.
 

RFR

Well-known member
It’s certainly fun playing the devil’s advocate. ;)

The question was a thought provoking one. (I hope) And the responses are interesting. :)
 
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