Distance placement???

[lenMCHC]

Hey everyone..
my question is regarding distance placement for LDC's in a room.

lets say I am micing a drum set, and want to run 2 room mics for the set... what would be the best choice?

or if i was distance micing a guitar cab. (room mic) 3 feet? 6 feet? some random spot that sounds good???

I am so very confused. I use my oktava LDC about 3 feet from my cab, and a SM 57 up on the grill, and mix it to taste.. but i was wondering if anyonelse had a set of placements that work well

 

[Freudian Slip]

Well... Lots of lookers, no takers..

things that would help for your answer on the drums are:
What pattern of LD mic? How is your room, is it dead or live? How else are you mic'ing the kit (At the same time) ?


I think on the guitar you are very close... The only way to know is to mess around though. I my self like my 57 about 2 to 3 inches off the grill, about 2/3 the way tward the outside of the cone at a 90 deg. angle from the grill tward the edge of the cab, not between speakers. Every time I set up I check it though. The mic'ing of cab speakers is very sensetive to mic placement. as for the LD mic I would use my ears. when you record with just a 57 what seems to be lacking? Find the place in the room (not to far off) that has the sound you are looking for and start there. Move around the room and listen with an ear tward the amp, I beleive the octavia is a cardoid mic??
This is all assuming you are recording distorted guitar as well?

I think I will wait on the drum question, there are too many variables....

I'll check back

Later
F.S.

 

[lenMCHC]

Hey F.S.

Thanks for replying... I didn't think anyone would reply.
Guitar:

It's almost all distorted. I use a sm57 on a Mesa Cab. Pointed about 3 inches from the grill. And point it about 3 inches from the center of the cone. And then i fool around, and make sure it sounds good, and I like the sound i'm recording... Then i make any last ditch adjustments...

Lately i have been putting the Oktava mic dead center of the cab, 3ft away from the grill... And equidistant to all 4 cones.(give or take an inch depending on how perfect i'm attempting to measure.) I think I like this sound, but maybe I'm not being experimental enough.


Drums: (opening up the barrel)
OK..

it's a Kick, snare, 3 Toms, high hat, and 4 cymbals (1 of which is a chyna) we play metal. and I'm trying to make a decent stereo mix.
I have and will use for these purposes:
(2) ECM8000 Overheads
(1 ) sm57 Snare
(1) akg 112 Kick
(3) AT mics Toms
(1) Okt Mk219 Room

Yes.. I know the mk219 is pretty cruddy, but I don't have all that much money, and i actually LIKE how it sounds if you cut the mids a little.

anyway, everything will be close mic'd except for the overheads.
and I just want to get a decent picture of the room sound with the Oktava. should i put it out in front of the kit?? randomly placed in the room?? I'm lost on that issue. I was also considering buying another mk219 to have a stereo pair...

The room is pretty dead, It is a fully soundproof room. So that isn't really an issue...
Thanks for responding...
~Len

 

[T diddy]

ok, here's my 2 cents...

Ok, I will be a taker, here....

Guitar: you already like your setup fairly well, so thats a great start.

Leave the 57 where you have it.
Then try backing off the ambient mic in about 1 foot increments to see what happens.

After you've found what increment is closest to what you want - then Keep that distance and try moving this mic off axis a little at a time - noting room sound change with each movement. Somewhere in here you will find a "spot" your ears like.

Drums - I would follow the exact same directions as above, but start your mic a bit farther away - say start straight on at 5 or 6 feet.
Point mic, basically level with the drummer's face. Now start backing it a foot or two at a time. This time when you get close to what your ears like, raise the mike up and down about 1 ft at a time til you like it.

With the drums, don;t worry about the "off-axis" thing, thats strictly a guitar cab issue.

Just remember the most important thing: does this room actually sound good? and is that worth trying to capture?

It sounds like it may not be without some adjustment to all the deadening, but if you have the time and want to try that's how I would approach it.

Good Luck! and make music!

 

[lenMCHC]

T diddy...
Thanks, I definately like the suggestions you made, and i will attempt to put them to use later tonite. But This on axis/off axis stuff is confusing me. Do you know of a diagram or something i can look @ posted online, so that i have a better clue?

As for the drums, I think the room will sound good enough to make it worth the effort. we are attempting to get a good mix so that the drums can clearly be heard in conjunction with everythingelse. We know it won't be professional. But we are tryin to get a record deal through an aquaintence that runs a semi high profile label, and he knows our demo is comming to him.

 

[T diddy]

on and off axis made easy

Ok, its real simple, on axis just basically means the front of the mic is aimed directly at the sound source - a speaker, a drum, whatever.
Off-axis just means you move it in any direction slightly away from the source.
THink of on axis as a straight line from source to the capsule of the mic.
THen off axis would be a slight adjustment to somewhere outside of the "line".
Make sense?

Good Luck!

 

[lenMCHC]

certainly makes sense.
but i wanted to make sure that i wasn't
thinking on a completely different plain
than you. Thanks T-diddy...

 

[PinkStrat]

Or you could put the SM-57 somewhere between the center of the speaker cone and the edge of it & then place the LDC further back but place it in front of the speaker cone. I find that aiming a close mic at the speaker cone is really the brightest area so I always put the close mic at a slight angle going towards the center cone. The beefiest sound/tone usually is found at the speaker edge. And there the mic is usually going straight in right on the grillcloth [or barely off of it]! Listen and fool around a bit--if you have a couple of dynamics and/or a LDC you'll find a really decent placement for what you're looking for. I've also had good luck with combining two close mics together at different areas of the same speaker using a Whirlwind Mic Combiner box also.