Cutting my first neck

[dragonworks]

I will be cutting my first neck out this coming week on the CNC mill from blocks of wood I have glued together. Copying a tele neck.
Time will tell.

 

[Light]

What kind of CNC are you using?

And by the by, if you can't do it by hand, then turn off the fucking computer and get yourself a fucking rasp.

What the hell ever happened to skills, man?



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[dragonworks]

What kind of CNC are you using?

And by the by, if you can't do it by hand, then turn off the fucking computer and get yourself a fucking rasp.

What the hell ever happened to skills, man?



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

state of the art cncs, and whatever happened to skills, who do you think programs these machines, who do you think does the drawings, who do think does all the math, who do you think sets them up and selects the cutters, speeds and feeds, order of operations etc, and who do you think runs it? I could also program everything without the aid of computers, I know all the codes, but why should I, I already paid my dues.
Why should I do all the work by hand when I am quite capable of doing all of the above, I am a guitar player, not a luthier. I am sure I could do better by hand the first time around rather than experimenting with a machine, but I didn't work for thirty years in a machine shop so I can bust my ass with a rasp. I can take a round block of aluminum and file it square to within plus or minus .001 and hold a .001 tolerance on any dimension on it you want, but what do I need to prove anything to you for. If I want a luthier to make one by hand I will pay him. You tell me when you obtain the skills above I outlined and we will discuss it. I take offense to your post, and I don't offend easily.

 

[guitar junkie]

well as far as it goes i think that i like the feel of a neck that was made for hands and i do not care who or how it was made as long its not warped cracked and it its my hand so rock on and get that Tele built i want to see it.

 

[Light]

I take offense to your post, and I don't offend easily.

It's called sarcasm. Deal with it.


What KIND of a CNC, was my question - Fadal, what? I am not without some knowledge in the field, even if I can't afford one.

And I do think that anyone who calls themself a professional guitar builder should know how to make a neck by hand. But as near as I can tell, you are doing it for fun, and for that, have at it. I have no problem with labor saving devices, I use MANY of them myself, but you learn things when you have your hands on a neck like that you will never learn from a computer. A professional needs that knowledge.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Toki987]

I thought they were only around a hundred grand for a a basic setup, without all the peripherals.

 

[dragonworks]

Fadals are pretty cheap machines but as far as controllers go they are all pretty much the same under the hood. I just don't like it when people who have not much of a clue as to what I due accuse me of being skill less. I don't give a damn if its sarcasm or not so deal with that. I worked over thirty years in shops and have played music for over forty five, I'll build the damn thing any way I want, I payed my dues.

 

[beezelbubba]

Can I build a guitar using candle making equipment?

 

[donkeystyle]

Can I build a guitar using candle making equipment?

yeah, i bet it'll sound real warm

 

[beezelbubba]

One would assume microphonics wouldn't be an issue!

 

[Dogman]

Beez, I don't care how you, or Jerry build a guitar. Play it, and I will listen. Sweet tunes from you dudes, that's why I'm here......

 

[Light]

Fadals are pretty cheap machines

Ah, no. At least, not to normal human beings. My friend Jim Olson got his (used) CNC, with a fair selection of tools for about $70,000 6-7 years ago. He has bought many new tools since then, so he is easily over $100,000 on it.

Look, I do lots of CAD work, so I know just what skills you have. I am not, in any way, degrading THOSE skills. But there are a lot of guys who want to be professional guitar builders right now who can't sell what they make, can't pay their rent, and (to be honest) are building guitars which are substandard, and many of them are thinking, "you know, my guitars would be great if I had my CNC machine. I mean, that's how Jim Olson does it!" And of course, Jim DOES use a Fadal. But these guys can't afford the way they are working, and they seem to think they can bypass a whole lot of skill building by just buying a CNC machine. But they can't sell anymore guitars just because they have a loan on the ShopBot to make (THAT is a realitively cheep CNC, at about $15,000, but it leaves a really poor surface compaired to the Fadal Jim has). Any antipathy I have towards CNC machines in the guitar world comes from watching guitar companies thinking they can skip the whole process of finding a sound and a customer base; and just jump right into the mass production phase. And then they jump right into Chapter 13. This bothers me bacause some of these guys are friends. It bothers me even more because some of these guys (not my friends), who have built like 2 guitars, then jump on the internet spouting disinformation that people actually believe. Oh, and by the by, a water buffalo horn nut will make NO difference in the sound of your guitar over a bone nut, thank you ever so much.

Myself, I don't have a CNC because it just would not make sense for my production levels. I have my peghead inlays cut by a guy with his CNC machine, but other than that what I do is very traditional machine woodworking (which is to say, shapers, band saws, and lots of sanding).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[dragonworks]

If your buddy paid 70,000 for a used fadal he is either lying to you or he got taken. I can buy them any day of the week used for under 20,000.00.
I can buy better machines for less, they are on ebay all time. Fadals are known in the trade as throwaways. The spindles usually wear out within five years and need to be rebuilt or replaced, and they really are not worth it.
I am not a luthier and I wouldn't tell you how to build a guitar. You are not a machinist with over thirty years in the trade so don't tell me fadals are not cheap machines, and I wasn't really talking about the price anyway but the quality.

http://search.ebay.com/cnc-milling-machine_W0QQfromZR8QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQssPageNameZWLRS

MORI SEIKI 4 Axis CNC Vertical Mill, $1_NO_RESERVE
6000 Rpm, 787 Ipm, Chip Convyr, CT40 30 ATC - CNCTRADER
its up to 2025.00 with 10 bids on it and will easily outlast a fadal by 10 to thirty years.

2001! HAAS VF-3D CNC VERTICAL MACHINING CENTER
15000 RPM / 20 HP Dual Vector Drive / Rigid Tap
about comprable to fadals, almost brand new, 31 bids, up to 31,000. but the Mori Seki is probably a better machine and should outlast this one.

MATSUURA CNC MACHINING CENTER -5,100.00

MAZAK VTC-41 CNC MILL VMC Vert Column Machining Center
7000RPM, 21-STATION ATC, 22"X, 16"Y, 20"Z -3,550.00
Mazak makes a pretty decent machine

MAZAK VQC DOUBLE COLUMN MACHINING CENTER CNC MILL
6000 RPM, 20-STATION ATC, 40x20x18 TRAVELS -2025.00

1990 FADAL VMC40 CNC VERTICAL MILL
FADAL VMC40 MILL LIKE NEW -11,000.00
a bit overpriced compared to the above

Cincinnati Sabre 500 CNC Vertical Machining Center -6000.00

BRIDGEPORT CNC HMC Horizontal Machining Center mill
Model: BPC-380H - Fanuc 6M Control - Pallet Changer $51.00
for fifty one bucks you cant go wrong even though she is a bit old

 

[c7sus]

Give him a break, Light.

Jerry is so confused lately he wants to move to OK!

Jerry........... ever thought about doing a Travis Bean clone out of Al???

 

[dragonworks]

Give him a break, Light.

Jerry is so confused lately he wants to move to OK!

Jerry........... ever thought about doing a Travis Bean clone out of Al???

you are mistaking confused with seen the light, ha, no pun intended
And......
yes, it is a piece of shit fadal I will be using whose spindle has been replaced once and this one is on its way out.
I would prefer to use the arrow, but I can't set up the gang vices there.

 

[guitar junkie]

so hows it going DW let us know whats up ok...