Cheap but good mic preamps

[BeëlzeM]

Hey guys, I'm new here. I recenty got interested in setting up a cheap though effective mic pre-amp and something like an SM57 to record my JCM 800 through my Marshall cab. I only want it to record ideas and riffs with and mix it into very rough demos for use with the band. Not really looking for a very high end sound quality, but only a cheap mic preamp that gives a good representation of my amp's sound to experiment with ideas. I saw these mic preamps like the ART Tube MP, PreSonus Firebox and all these. I was wondering if these are any good for what I want. I don't really want to spend more than 100 bucks on this one. And maybe get two SM57 for recording with two mics, if that helps alot.

Would an ART Tube MP be good enough for me? Along with an SM57 directly into my cheapo soundcard? It just needs to do the trick, I really don't expect too much from this and I don't have my standards set high for this but a remotely nice recorded sound from my cab would be awesome. I have some audio editing software so that should be good I reckon.

Thanks in advance guys...

 

[suprstar]

Your sound card will be the weakest link. No matter what you have up front, you're gonna have a trashy AD conversion at the sound card. What I'd recommend is getting a little USB mixer like a Yamaha MW10 or Alesis Multimix or something. An AD converter on any of these things will be way better than the line-in on your soundblaster, which is constructed with about 12¢ worth of parts....

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/?sku=630166

 

[BeëlzeM]

Alright. Might be a bit above what I'd like to spend on getting it all together though. The thing is, we rehearse every week in a friend's studio which has all these Chandlers and stuff, I just want to get some decent and easy recordings on my pc for later use. How about getting something like a PreSonus with an USB or Firewire out?

Hehe, I had this old mic laying around, plugged it straight into my soundcard. Must have been the worst thing I've ever heard, that thing clipped like crazy.

 

[KineticSound]

What I'd recommend is getting a little USB mixer like a Yamaha MW10 or Alesis Multimix or something. An AD converter on any of these things will be way better than the line-in on your soundblaster, which is constructed with about 12¢ worth of parts...

+1 to that. On the cheap, you could also pick up a small inline preamp/converter like a Blue Icicle or similar. As suprstar already mentioned, just about anything that bypasses the soundcard will be an improvement.

 

[BeëlzeM]

That sounds quite interesting. How does that sound?

How about a pre like a PreSonus with a FireWire out? That works to bypass the soundcard?

 

[KineticSound]

Any external interface with a USB or FW connection is bypassing the soundcard, so you have lots of options. PreSonus is fine; the TASCAM 144 is a great starter box, too.

An inline preamp will be light years beyond the "mic into the soundcard" setup. It's not going to sound like an API box, but it should do just fine for sketching ideas or making the occasional tracks at home to later insert into your final projects.

 

[BeëlzeM]

A preamp like these directly into USB or FW, a good mic (an SM57 probably), and I'm set getting some decent tones? How will the sound quality be by the way? Anyone got some clips recorded with something in this pricerange? These PreSonus ones look pretty good, and have all I pretty much need. Anyone got experience with these, or clips?

presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=7
presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=53

 

[DrewPeterson7]

A preamp like these directly into USB or FW, a good mic (an SM57 probably), and I'm set getting some decent tones? How will the sound quality be by the way? Anyone got some clips recorded with something in this pricerange? These PreSonus ones look pretty good, and have all I pretty much need. Anyone got experience with these, or clips?

presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=7
presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=53

I've been using the Presonus Firepod (the AudioBox's big brother) for quite a while now, and a M-Audio Firewire 410 (comparable to the AudioBox) for some time before that.

The Presonus stuff is great - it's not "pro" level, exactly, but it's light year beyond plugging straight into your soundcard, and it's good enough where if you're running it and your recordings don't sound good, it's probably user error and not your gear, which from the sound of it is more than enough for your purposes.

For the price you might want to consider going for a FP10 (the new version of the Firepod) or a used Firepod simply for 8 tracks at a time with a dedicated preamp. I don't know if I should be encouraging the home studio bug, but 8 tracks is easily enough to do a fairly good job on a drum kit, if you have the mics for it, and if you're willing to spend the time learning, it's definitely possible to make a good sounding recording of your whole band with one of these things.

If it's just for working on your own, though, the Audiobox should be fine. Either way, for what it is it's great gear.

 

[BeëlzeM]

Great to hear. I definately got my eye on a PreSonus AudioBox USB along with an SM57. I only will be recording my guitar cab at home, the band stuff will be recorded with Chandlers in the studio anyway.

I'm thinking of getting two SM57 for dual tracking if it's worth it, should I look into that? I use Cakewalk Sonar by the way.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Great to hear. I definately got my eye on a PreSonus AudioBox USB along with an SM57. I only will be recording my guitar cab at home, the band stuff will be recorded with Chandlers in the studio anyway.

I'm thinking of getting two SM57 for dual tracking if it's worth it, should I look into that? I use Cakewalk Sonar by the way.

No need. When people refer to "multi-tracking" guitars, they mean recording one track with a single mic, then recording the part again. One SM57 and one good audio channel will suffice for demoing.

One cautionary note - a Marshall JCM800 is LOUD. I mean, I know you know this, but it doesn't really come into its own until it gets almost painful to be around, and then suddenly it sounds godly. Have you considered maybe picking up an attenuator too so you can get some of that power tube saturation as well?

 

[BeëlzeM]

No need. When people refer to "multi-tracking" guitars, they mean recording one track with a single mic, then recording the part again. One SM57 and one good audio channel will suffice for demoing.

One cautionary note - a Marshall JCM800 is LOUD. I mean, I know you know this, but it doesn't really come into its own until it gets almost painful to be around, and then suddenly it sounds godly. Have you considered maybe picking up an attenuator too so you can get some of that power tube saturation as well?

Alright, cool. I heard before from people placing two mics in different positions in front of their cabs and record both mics at once they results were better but I don't really know. Any truth to that?

Hehe yeah man, an 800 is loud enough. I don't have a attenuator though I have been using a Weber Mass before, haven't bought one myself. My 800 doesn't even sound like a true 800 anymore though. It was a 2205, a splitchannel 50 watter. I rewired the whole thing and tweaked the hell out of it. The lead channel now has 4 gainstages instead of the usual 3, the clean channel now has 2 gainstages instead of the usual 3. Way better for both channels. My leadchannel is now very close to that of a Framus Cobra, or ENGL's, or an SLO or a Bogner etc. I love that thing, and I think it sounds pretty good at 2 , anyways, thanks for the advice.

Still pretty curious for any actual recorded samples of a setup like this, you know where I could find any?

 

[KineticSound]

I heard before from people placing two mics in different positions in front of their cabs and record both mics at once they results were better but I don't really know. Any truth to that?

The two-mic setup is typically one dynamic up close (like your SM57) and a condenser or ribbon placed out in the room to pick up the ambience. Two 57's could work for that, but it's probably not worth the effort and isn't likely to give you the same effect. That method also brings the need for appropriate room treatment into the equation, which is a whole different thread.

Best to start simple. 57 right in front. Once you've mastered that, then you can go drop the $1,700 on a Royer ribbon to put up there with it.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Alright, cool. I heard before from people placing two mics in different positions in front of their cabs and record both mics at once they results were better but I don't really know. Any truth to that?

Hehe yeah man, an 800 is loud enough. I don't have a attenuator though I have been using a Weber Mass before, haven't bought one myself. My 800 doesn't even sound like a true 800 anymore though. It was a 2205, a splitchannel 50 watter. I rewired the whole thing and tweaked the hell out of it. The lead channel now has 4 gainstages instead of the usual 3, the clean channel now has 2 gainstages instead of the usual 3. Way better for both channels. My leadchannel is now very close to that of a Framus Cobra, or ENGL's, or an SLO or a Bogner etc. I love that thing, and I think it sounds pretty good at 2 , anyways, thanks for the advice.

Still pretty curious for any actual recorded samples of a setup like this, you know where I could find any?

Sounds pretty sweet, man - I'm more the Mesa type, but I'd be curious to hear that.

It's done, yeah, and it's possible to get great results that way.

That said, working with more than one mic also brings phase cancellation into the picture, which can be a huge headache - not only do you have to get your mics positioned so they sound right on their own, they also have to be positioned such that they're in phase with each other and there's no notch filtering as the slight offset in timing cancels out certain frequencies. It's a nightmare if you've never done it before, and even kind of a hassle if you have. And, you still have the fundamental problem of getting your mic positioned such that it sounds good to begin with. As that's the case, if you're new to micing an amp I'd advocate starting with a single SM57 for now. For one, it's a setup that's been used to make countless great-sounding guitar recordings, and for another it takes phasing out of the equation and lets you focus solely on mic placement, which is the kind of fundamental you really want to get good at before adding needless complexity.

Clips of what sort of setup?

 

[BeëlzeM]

Sounds pretty sweet, man - I'm more the Mesa type, but I'd be curious to hear that.

It's done, yeah, and it's possible to get great results that way.

That said, working with more than one mic also brings phase cancellation into the picture, which can be a huge headache - not only do you have to get your mics positioned so they sound right on their own, they also have to be positioned such that they're in phase with each other and there's no notch filtering as the slight offset in timing cancels out certain frequencies. It's a nightmare if you've never done it before, and even kind of a hassle if you have. And, you still have the fundamental problem of getting your mic positioned such that it sounds good to begin with. As that's the case, if you're new to micing an amp I'd advocate starting with a single SM57 for now. For one, it's a setup that's been used to make countless great-sounding guitar recordings, and for another it takes phasing out of the equation and lets you focus solely on mic placement, which is the kind of fundamental you really want to get good at before adding needless complexity.

Clips of what sort of setup?

I hear ya, I also dig Mesa's, but I consider myself quite the old school thrash/death Marshall roar guy I need to get this amp recorded here as I don't have any actual recordings of this puppy.

Alright, that sounds like a huge hassle. That phase thing sounds familiar, but my fysics lessons are digged DEEP down 15 years ago. One 57 right now would be good enough I think. The thing was, I hardly could find any clips or samples recorded with a setup like a simple Audiobox with a 57, even reviews were hard to find, but I found this YouTube clip now though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ShtC5bbPGM

This sounds pretty damn good, to my ears at least and this is more than I had expected it to be. If this is an Audiobox and a 57, the results sound great. It will be more than enough for what I want out of it, should be quite some fun actually to get on this...

 

[BeëlzeM]

Just coming back for some more advice,

How does this look to you guys:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMu-0202-USB-2.0-Audio-interface?sku=240552

I got a pretty good price on one somewhere. It's got one XLR input, and USB 2.0. Or will an Audiobox be better? I already got an SM57 for around 50$ second-hand from a local guy.

By the way, that Youtube clip I posted in my previous post, will that be the sound quality I will be close to getting in this pricerange? That sounds pretty good to me. More than I would expect anyway.

 

[BeëlzeM]

Guys, I pretty much got my eye on a EMU 0202 right now as it got the very basic features I need, just recording one signal from my SM57 to SONAR. Here is what I need, and don't need.

- 1 XLR mic input.
- No 48V phantom power needed, I use a dynamic mic.
- Instrument input not really needed.
- MIDI not needed.
- S/PDIF not needed.

Just the very basic dynamic recording. The 0202 is the way to go? An Audiobox or another Presonus might be a bit too much I want to spend on one, especially for features I don't really need.

 

[KineticSound]

Again, for strictly pre-amp'ing one mic only; no other bells & whistles, save the cash:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Blue-Icicle-XLR-to-USB-Mic-Converter?sku=330275

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=703606X