can i record at least 2 tracks at once?

[jwgeetar]

i've been messing with the n-track demo still. it only lets me do one track at a time. so i line out of my external mixer with my guitar & vocals. it records both of them fine on one track.

ok! when i register the software, i basically want to record the guitar on one track,vocals on the other. from what i can tell(and have read) i need another soundcard to do this?

or? is this where the midi/preamp interface comes in?
If i need it i will buy it.

If i buy it(what say a 2 in/2out)(or 4/4)will this device
enable me to assign my live recording inputs to different tracks?

This will be the basis for doing overdubs to my songs
for the time being. geetar

 

[DaveO]

n-Track will let you record as many simultaneous tracks as your soundcard and PC can handle. My setup is pretty simple (still have the SoundBlaster Live! that came with the PC) but since there's a stereo line in on the soundcard I can - and do - record two tracks simultaneously.

Since this line in is a 1/8" stereo jack, I bought a short cable that has a 1/8" stereo plug on one end and 1/4" mono plugs on the other. I use the 1/4" plugs in the output of my preamps, guitar effects pedal, or my friend's POD when he's at my house.

On the soundcard end, I have to use the soundcard's mixer to record from the line in and also set the record level there. Then on n-Track I go into the input/recroding VU meter, click on settings, and set the value I want (one mono track, one stereo track, or dual mono tracks). Doing this, I can record a mono source (such as a mic), a stereo source such as the POD, or two mono sources (such as two mics on an acoustic, the mono out from the POD and a mic, etc).

I'm not sure what you're soundcard is, but if it at least has a stereo line in you could try this. If you want better sound and more flexibility then a soundcard designed for recording would be a great idea (I probably don't need to go that far).

 

[jwgeetar]

davo, as always your a ton of help. sounds like your doing a lot of good recordings.
i checked out my creative awe64(isa)again and on the net.

i have:
1-line in(from my ext mixer)
2-mic in(computer mic-not used)
3-stereo line out(to my playback stereo)
4-spkr out(headphones)
5-game/midi port(not used)

basic setup! but i don't see or can't tell if my mixer "line in" is stereo. no documentation to tell me or a pop up menu.

should i get (another) stereo 1/8" to 1/4" mono plug and try it?(more $$$) you would think since i have a stereo out
that it would be a stereo in to.

i know it's an old soundcard, but sounds great.geetar

 

[Slackmaster2K]

You have a stereo line in. No question about it.

What people sometimes don't actually realize, even if they know it, is that *stereo* means "two mono channels"...therefore you already have a 2in/2out soundcard.

Assuming you're recording mono sources like microphones and the like, you can record up to two at once onto seperate tracks. But first you need to set things up correctly in n-Track.

This process is the MOST unintuitive part of n-Track though. You have to open the Recording VU Meter to set things up. From the Recording VU meter, you can select which track you're going to record to (a new track or an existing track), and you can select whether you're going to record in mono, stereo, or stereo->two mono tracks.

Obviously the latter is the easiest to use. But as long as you're recording stereo, you're ok. You can always split a stereo track to two mono tracks at any time.

Now you need some way of seperating the inputs. You mentioned that you have a mixer. Let's say you want to record two mics at once to two seperate tracks in n-Track. Simple. You pan one one microphone hard right and the other hard left. Then run a stereo line between the mixer and the soundcard. If you don't want to use your mixer, you'll need some sort of y-adapter. Look for a y-cable in which one end is a 1/4" male stereo plug and the other end consists of two 1/4" mono female connectors.

Also, I don't think you quite understand how multitracking works in this case. Your TOTAL tracks are not limited to the number of ins/outs on your soundcard. You can record as many tracks as your computer is capable of handling. That is, you can listen to what's already been recorded while recording a brand new track. The number of ins/outs on your soundcard will only dicate how many tracks you can record at the same time, and the number of tracks you can work with if you're using an outboard mixer for mixing (don't worry about that at this point).

As for your soundcard. It sucks dude, even for a consumer grade card. And I'll tell you why (I started with a similar card myself...an SB16):

1) The SB Awe64 is not truely full duplex. "Full Duplex" means that you can record and playback at the same time. This is necessary for recording multiple tracks in multiple sessions. For instance, it would be very hard to add vocals to a guitar track if you couldn't listen to the guitar track while recording the vocals! Now, the Awe64 is SORT OF full duplex...kinda half-ass-full-duplex in that it can only playback 8bit audio while recording 16 bit. So while you're adding your vocal track, the guitar track you're listening to will sound like absolute crapola.

2) The noise floor is horrible. It might not SEEM bad to your ears right now...but trust me. I bet that if you open up your recording VU meter in n-Track and just watch it while nothing is going on, it'll be registering at around -40db or so. On a decent card, that value will drop to -70 or lower, giving you MUCH more dynamic space to play in.

Don't fear! When you get fed up with that Awe64, you don't have to go blow a fortune on a "pro" card if you can't afford one. Try a Soundblaster PCI128 or a Creative/Ensoniq AudioPCI ... both retail for about 30 bucks and while they don't have any more real noticable features than the Awe64, both are truely full duplex, and both have a very low noise floor.

I personally use an Ensoniq AudioPCI...I wish I could afford a nice card but it sure works fine for now. My typical recording project will consist of 10-16 tracks on a humble Celeron 500Mhz machine with a single 7200RPM HD.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[DaveO]

I'm at work, so I'm going from memory. Hope I don't say something completely wrong. Coupla things:

- I never used that particular card so I don't know for sure. If your line in really is stereo (I'm guessing yes) then you really need TWO 1/4 mono plugs on one end and a 1/8" STEREO plug going into the sound card. If all you have is one mono 1/4" then you'll never record two tracks, or one stereo track.

- I couldn't find what I needed so I had to be creative. I bought a 1/8" stereo to 2 RCA jacks. Then I bought 2 RCA "gender benders" (RCA jack on each end). Finally I have two cables, each with one RCA plug on one end and a 1/4" mono plug on the other. It's a crappy solution but it will do the job. I actually like having the RCA jacks because I can also connect the lineouts of my 4-track to them, so it at least serves a purpose.

- Check you Start Menu and see if there's a submenu for "Creative". If so, follow that to see if you start up up something that might take you to the mixer (if there is one). That's how I originally got to mine but I ended up putting a shortcut to it on my desktop. Another possibility is to go to your Control Pannel, then settings, then Sounds and Multimedia (or something like that). I have a SoundBlaster at work (don't know which) and this is the only way to modify balance, level, etc.

- Glad to see you're not using the mic in on the sound card. The sound quality just won't be there.


Hope at least some of that made sense.

 

[DaveO]

Ooops. I see Slack jumped in while I was bouncing back and forth between work and non-work. Lots of good info in his post.

 

[jwgeetar]

slackmaster,thanks a lot! i get what you say about the panning. for now, i'm using my powered peavey 600c gig
mixer for an external mixer.it is a mono mixer. it has no pan capability.

i'm lining out of the "main out" into the soundcard. there is also a moniter out and an effects out.(3 outs) Could i "Y" out of two of these on the 1/4" end and use the other 1/8" stereo end into the soundcard "and pan in N-track"?
so far, i don't see that i can pan in n-tracks.

i'm using a high z input for the guitar and an xlr for the mic. i don't want vocals to bleed into the guitar part for now.

i know,i know----i need a major overhaul of my equipment.
but trying to see what i can do with what i got "before"
i lay that hard earned cash down for N-track.
thanks--geetar

 

[Slackmaster2K]

Sorry to butt in DaveO! I'm just not feeling like working today

jwgeetar,

If your mixer isn't stereo then I think you're kinda SOL. You're not going to get any seperation between the left and right channels. You can use a Y cable at the outputs, or you can just take a mono line from the mixer into the soundcard...same result if you set n-Track to record in mono, which you should in this case since the source is mono.

What you can do, however, is record the guitar first, then add the vocals second. You need to just kinda play with n-Track a bit. Plug a mic into your mixer and the mixer into your soundcard and start recording random whatevers. Hit record and say "testing 123" then hit stop. Then hit record again and say "still testing" and hit stop. You should notice something here. 1) You heard "testing 123" while you were saying "still testing"...this is good, and what allows you to overdub. 2) The "testing 123" sounded like crap while you were recording "still testing" because your soundcard isn't true full duplex. 3) If you didn't use headphones, this will be your first run in with "bleeding" as you'll hear track one in the background of track two because the microphone picked up what was coming from your monitors. Learn to use your headphones!

You'll now have TWO tracks, one with the "testing 123" and one with the "still testing". You can now mix these tracks however you want to. You can pan them, adjust their volumes, add effects...whatever. Now keep going...add more and more tracks and play some more.

A little known fact: One of the first songs I ever recorded on my PC was called "Hindsight"...at the beginning of this tune are a bunch of voices saying different things...kind of a "crowd" effect but all my own voice. It might sound all "deep" or whatever, but actually it was taken from my very first attempts at using n-Track...and I was just saying random crap into the mic to see what I could do. Basically, the exact same thing I suggested you do. I think that song is still up at http://www.mp3.com/slacker ... it's a crappy tune though.

I don't think you should worry about buying n-Track if you're on a budget. There's nothing else even close to the $35 mark that n-Track hits.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[DaveO]

Slack,

I'm not someone who should tell people to butt out - I just starting using n-Track about 2-3 months ago. I get the impression you've been doing this longer than I have. At least I was trying to get some work done in between thoughts in my last post.

JW, I only bought n-Track to be cheap and experiment with it until I find "a real product". Granted, my needs are fairly simple and I'm not trying t make money from recording, but so far I see no reason to switch. I can do far more than I could have ever done with my 4-track (at least done easily) and I'm still learning cool things - like I just started fiddling with volume/slider automation and want t start learning MIDI. It's $39 (I think the price went up from $35 recently) well spent.

If you want to hear more of what people have done with it check out Fasoft's web site (http://www.fasoft.com). The links section has a link to an n-Track user's gallery so you can hear what people have done with it. There's also a link to a page on MP3.com for an n-Track users compilation CD, similar to what Slackmaster organized for people here.

 

[jwgeetar]

hey guys. to begin with. slack i tried to play your stuff from the link. no workee! does the site want $1.99? would love to hear what you've done.and daveo, at the fasoft site,i played several artists,sounds good to me.

n-track is coming around a lil at a time for me.(even with limited resources)it looks like a"buy". i have to get started somewhere.if i don't record a song i've written, i lose it--somewhat.i don't want to even go back to the old 4-track days.

i will probably buy n-track to so i can save the cubase $300
and put that money on a ext mixer,soundcard or one of those
Rode NT1 mics.

any ideas on a good enough cheapo 8 track mixer with XLR inputs,panning,etc?

here's my website. it may take 3-4 minutes to d-load(DSL) but the song is the title track to my 1994 album. this was done in a 16 track studio for about 5 grand.
http://www.jwweir.com

 

[RockinRobert]

jwgeetar, you can't go wrong with n-track. I have been using Cakewalk 8.01 for quite some time, and I think that n-rack is real close, especially for costing next to nothing. I have messed with the demo version for a little while...I just haven't gotten around to registering it yet
BTW Slack, I tried to play your tune also, but my RealPlayer said that it needed a specific plugin to play it, and that it was not available
Slack, you mentioned that the beginning of your tune was kinda accidental in nature with the voices and all. If you get bored, go to my MP3 site http://www.mp3.com/stormrock and listen to "Edge of 17" The beginning happened by accident and we kept it. I was trying to start the song with my guitar feeding back. Several tries with no satisfactory harmonics. What I didn't know was that the engineer was not rewinding the tape all the way back when we re-did each take. What you hear is a mish mosh of tries at the feedback...ended up sounding like the beginning of that POLICE tune...you know the one, "Many miles away, something crawls to the door...." I can't remember the name!!!! ARGGHHHHHH! Anywhoo accidents can be good. Experimentation is ESSENTIAL! Spend the $39 on n-track and go for it! bOb

 

[jwgeetar]

hey---rockin r---edge of 17 very cool.did you do that on cakewalk? keep it up. you got to have the brass ring out for somebody to grab(backers,record co's,etc).sounds like yours is polished,ready to go.

i just registered n-track. i put all my(other borrowed money) into a new computer setup that will handle the rigors of recording.i could make a list of equipment but to get going i need an external(econo) mixer.it's come down to that.

What do you (or anybody) think about the behringer 6 channel mixer on sale at geetar center for $99?

anybody got one for sale near the Houston,texas area?
thanks, jwgeetar