Can I put a V67 inside a Kick Drum?

[cordura21]

I mean SPL-wise. I read it has a 130db tolerance. Does a kick drum produce more or less than 130 db?

Is there a guide to SPLs? Like a Trumpet is xx, a Tom is YY, etc?
Thanks in advance, Andrés

 

[chessrock]

Yea, I'd like to know the answer to that one, myself.

Would the air being pushed around in there wreak havoc on the capsule over time?

 

[knownuttin]

Yes. As long as you don't plug it in. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Dunno bout damaging the diaphram, Chess, but it sounds likely, at least over time.

Mostly I've found that when I've put condensors inside the kick the mic gets overdriven and I end up pulling it out front to get a usable signal. If you gotta close mic the kick (and you don't gotta do anything), try a dynamic.
-kent

 

[Tom Hicks]

I have used my V67 inside the kick and it doesn't seem to have damaged it.But I didn't like the clicky sound micing right where the beater hits.So lately I've been pulling further back and using a chair and a blanket to make a tunnel out to the mic.

 

[sjjohnston]

V67 in a Drum

It shouldn't damage the mic. It might overload it and sound awful, but it should be okay afterwards. At least so long as you don't let the beater hit the mic.

 

[knownuttin]

Yeah, definitely don't put it between the beater and the head.
-kent

 

[Tom Hicks]

No guys
Try using is AS the beater!

 

[chessrock]

Yea, I need to whip up some scrambled eggs, and my normal beater is broken. Do you think I could use it for that?

 

[ametth]

I bet the screen would work as a nice sifter!

 

[Harvey Gerst]

It ain't the SPL that causes havoc with condenser and ribbon mics on kick drums up close - it's the big puff of air that is generated when you whack that big piece of plastic with a beater. That puff of air can pop a sensitve ribbon mic or stretch a condenser diaphragm considerably. When you bottom out a condenser mic, you can lose some of the charge, or some of the mic's capacitance. In most cases, the mylar, or ribbon, won't spring back to it's original tension.

IF it does survive the blasts from a session, it won't ever sound the same again, since you've stretched the ribbon, or stretched the mylar (in a condenser mic).

Some solutions: Use a pop filter, just as you would for a vocalist, or anything that will prevent the blast from directly hitting the diaphragm. Put a sock on it. Yeah, you'll lose some top end, but it might save the mic. Stretch a couple of pair of panty hose over the mic - same reason. You want to basically divert or lower the wind part of the signal.

Whispering into a mic won't hurt it and it won't generate a high SPL; whispering into a mic while standing outdoors - with a 70 mph wind coming from over your shoulder - ISN'T a good idea. Same principle.

 

[cordura21]

Harvey, is there a way to know if the air movement is too much for a mic?
Would you put a V67 inside a kick?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

With a ribbon mic almost any air blast is bad, if not potentially fatal. My Coles 4038 ribbon mic came with an 8 page owner's manual; 7 of those pages were devoted to what not to do: Don't take it outside, don't put it near air ducts, don't close the door too fast, don't blow into the mic, don't close the mic case lid too quickly, don't swing the mic fast if it's on a boom arm, etc.

The V67 could probably withstand being put inside a kick drum, but it won't be the same mic coming out as it was when it went in.

 

[DrFrankencopter]

Not sure I agree with you Harvey....

Yes, the air blast can stretch a ribbon mic out pretty fast, there's no denying that, but I can't see a kick drum stretching a modern mylar condensor mic past its elastic limit. I figure that in the worst case you'd bottom the diaphragm out against the ground plate (which must sound horrible), but can hardly imagine that even being something to worry about.

Now, an old tube U47 with a brittle PVC diaphragm would probably break in a kick....

The other issue to deal with is how to tame the high level signal that's going to come out of the mic in the kick drum....you'll need a hell of a pad (and the mic electronics themselves will likely clip).

I've tried condensors inside the kick a few times....and never liked the sound. My mics are fine....

Cheers,

Kris

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Over a period of time, it will drop the resonance of the capsule noticably. Bottoming out a condenser capsule can cause arcing and a reduction in sound quality if it persists. I agree that it won't break a mic and I don't know how you'd tame the ouptut signal either.

You'd need to insert a huge pad to keep the electronics from clipping. I do have a pair of Oktava MC012s and the Russian 33mm Lomo head. I could stack two of the 10dB pads (that go between the capsule and the body) and try it one of these days.

 

[cordura21]

just two more.
1) Doing the carpet tunnel thing will make it more safe. Or adjusting the angle of the mic?

2) Is there a way to measure when a source can damage a mic, or you do it just by experience (others I hope)?

Cheers, Andrés

 

[Harvey Gerst]

just two more.
1) Doing the carpet tunnel thing will make it more safe. Or adjusting the angle of the mic?

Going with the tunnel is a safer bet. It lets the air blast spread out and dissipate.

When I put any mic inside a bass drum, I always angle it so that it's pointed at the floor tom, but centered where the beater strikes the head. That way, I get a little less snare in the mix if I have to gate the kick during mixdown.

2) Is there a way to measure when a source can damage a mic, or you do it just by experience (others I hope)?

Put your hand there when the music is going. If you can feel a lot of air movement, it's not a "mic friendly" environment.

Cheers, Andrés

 

[cordura21]

forgive me cause sometimes my english sucks and I don't understand things right.

Would it be like in option A or B of hits attachement?
Thanks for the patience

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Great drawing. It's option B.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Isnt it best to just use an SM57 close to the beater and then an LD about 4' away from the front of the bass drum?

 

[Harvey Gerst]

"Best" is a hard term to define in this context. For most of our heavy metal sessions, we use the ATM25, or the D112. For some drummers, the AT Pro 25 seems to work better. For rock, alternative, and misc. music, we usually use the D112 or the D12E. We've added an EV RE-20 recently, but those are pretty much our standard "inside the kick" mics.

What we use outside the kick varies a great deal, depending on the song, but it's usually a large diaphragm condenser mic or a ribbon mic.

We've never been able to get exactly the right sound from a SM-57 inside a kick. It can probably be done, but with all the other mics we have, it just wasn't worth the time it would take to mess with it.