can i get a decent guitar sound?

  • Thread starter Thread starter deadleafecho
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deadleafecho

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Ok im at my wits end. Spent almost all day trying to get a decent guitar sound, and it sounds, well, assy! 1st off heres my setup.

Les Paul studio--> mesa boogie mark 3 head,Rhy2 (pre set to 4, master set to 10,set to simul class operation)-> marshall 4x12 1960 cab--> sm 57--> mackie 1202 vlz pro (tried coming out of the 3-4bus and as a direct out) --> audiophile 2496 --> cool edit pro.

my problem is, no matter what ive tried, the guitar sound has an awful,cripsy sort of digital sound distortion overlaying it. Even in the clean channel. I cant figure out where, if anywhere, im over loading. I went back through the manual on the mackie for setting levels, started out +7 since this is what they listed as the max, and have backed the trim down as low as to 0 on the meter. Coming into my audiophile, using the cards meter, went as high as 0db(prolly bad idea , i know, since dig as zero headroom) down to around -4 to -6 db. I tried 2 diff cabs so far, lowering the master vol, hit the low cut on my mixer.....and even on the quieter parts i can hear a crinkley crispy crappyness. On louder parts its even worse......
Anyone have any ideas? im pretty much a newb so dont assume ive done anything a normal person would do lol
Any advice is appreciated


D
 
BTW-one thing i noticed, i dont hear the clipping or whatnot from palm muted parts, the song im working on doesnt have any, so i did a track by itself of just random open and muted chords, as well as arppegiated stuff (which is alot of what the song) The muted stuff sounds ok, but when i start picking out chords it turns to crap!

that help any? heh
 
Sounds like you are peaking something in your chain. If your levels are not peaking coming out of the Mackie then it has to be in the PC. Set your levels real low (below -6db) on both the mackie and the PC and see if you are still having the problem.

Also, how are you placing the mic in reference to the cab? Do a search on the site for mic placement. Placement is crucial in getting the right sound.
 
Have had similar problems in the past, man...

One question: what type of cable are you using for the mic? If you're using a typical mic cable, THAT could well be the source of the "assy-ness". Do a search for "impedance" on this site... ah hell I'll do it:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=249388&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Try balanced cable with your SM57... you'll be surprised at the difference. (generally, XLR plugs on each end)

Also... to a degree (once the impedance thing is taken care of).... you'll certainly need to experiment with mic placements.


Chad
 
thanks for the replies! My next step will be to go extreme low DB on the mackie and sound card.....
Mic placement, ive tried 3 basically, center of the speaker ON the grille(close as it gets), center of the speaker 3-4 inches from grille (this just sounded FAR AWAY and ASSY heh) and halfway between the center of the speaker and its outmost edge....right on the grille(sounded darker...and assy)

I was thinking about it at the store, and ya my mic cable isnt all that great. Balanced yes, but its just a cheapo 20ft mic cable, think it was like $20 or $30....might have to use that one for practicing and get a better for recording


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Looking around.....must have been cheaper than a $20 cable becuase im seeing a 15fter monster for $25....unless i got hosed by my local music store heh
So whats everyone suggest? Monster? Mogami? some other M-word?
 
My guess is still the cable... try to keep 'em short as possible--used balanced cables if possible. IIRC you can't adjust the input trim on the 2496.... what about the Mackie outs? Is there a +4/-10 switch? If so, try the nominal (-10db) level.

You're going into the Mackie thru the line in/DI/preamp?

Could be a bad mic (doubtful... SM57s are the cockroaches of the mic world... everywhere, and practically indestructable ;))

If you're going for a good, crunchy tone... aiming the SM57 at the edge of the speaker cone, or even aiming it slightly inside of the cone, should give good results. Put it right up on the grille. If you want brighter, put it closer to the center of the cone.

Your guitar might need new strings, too :eek: (tho that guitar is pretty sweet sounding, even with old rusty floss on it :))
 
Im using the mackie as my pre amp heh.

"sm 57--> mackie 1202 vlz pro (tried coming out of the 3-4bus and as a direct out) --> audiophile 2496 "

i looked in the manual for some sort of indication of what the output was on the alt3-4 bus and on the Insert outs, and found....well dick pretty much
Strings are like 3-4 days old, not a whole lot of use on em yet.
Is 20ft too long for a mic cable?

Im not really going for any particular sound, i mentioned the crunchy thing only because THAT sound doesnt sound too bad.

thanks again


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Was this resolved? If not, here's some more input.

not the strings. How that would even be possible is beyond me.

and 20ft is NOT too long for a balanced XLR to XLR mic cable. They can go way longer. ;)

In terms of mic placement, are you pointing the 57 directly at the center of the Speaker cone? You might want to try slightly off axis.

all in all, my guess is you're still clipping somewhere. Are you monitoring off of the audiophile or the mackie? I would plug your phones off the audiophile, start at zero volume and see at which point the integrity of the tone is compromised. Then, when you reach the breakup point......................set it just under that. :)
 
No wont be resolved until tomorrow when the neighborhood is awake and i can go back to rocking 8)

Due to lack of money, i havent bought the cables to route my audiophile back to the mackie( and then run control out to my monitors...that i dont have yet) so sadly the stereo out on my audiophile is going to some crap headphones heh
Im starting to see how i sound like every other newb out there: "Why does my RS mic sound like crap on my SB16????"

The problem is , my PC speakers are connected to a cheapie sound card that only does 16bit 44k So i can listen to the tracks on those(Creative labs/altec lansing type pc speakers) if i convert it from 32(24) bit and 96k. Ive done this, and it sounds a bit better, but i dont know if that because theyre crappy speakers and are reproducing the actual sound, if maybe the conversion is doing it, or my headphones are distorting (havent noticed distortion listening to other types of music)

All in all, i think its obvious i might as well not bother posting until i upgrade more gear heh




D
 
Dude, there are a few things to probably look at. First, but unlikely, your mic may be having trouble coping. I had a similar problem with an sm58. 2 - your actually input to your computer may be having trouble. Now this has nothing to do with cutting your gains. I am talking about the very physical beginning of the input. I've heard it many times, both on computers to basic inputs on other gear like a desk or an analogue 4 track. Be real careful about cutting all your gains to achieve a clean sound, you're not fixing the problem, you're just getting around it. You will comprimise your sound that way as well. In the digital world as I understand it, you still need to use as many BITS as you can, to represent your sound accurately. cheers
 
Sounds like a silly question, but are you getting a good sound from the amp? I have a boogie dc-3 and if I turn any of the knobs to 10 (especially the pre or master) it really spits at me. With your gear (and the neighbor comment), I'm guessing that you are playing really loud. The sheer volume and reflections may be hiding frequecies from your ears that the microphone still picks up.

Try putting your head right in front of the speakers (ouch!). This will get you closest to hearing what mic is hearing. At very loud volumes you may also be clipping the mic.

I'd try using the mic straight on dead center and close to the speaker while you are trouble shooting. If you can't at least get a decent sound that way, I think the trouble is somewhere else.

Hope this is helpful.
 
standing in front of the amp, its sounds incredible. Im not playing super loud(im in 50w mode instead of 100w), im about as loud as i would think i would have to be to record heh 8)

"Try putting your head right in front of the speakers (ouch!)"
Well, this im not gonna do heh
Sorry but id rather live with an assy sound and still be able to hear it. I may go as far as get down on my knees to get it pointed more at my head...I may actually try it in 100w mode, turn down the head pre gain, and this should lower the amps over distortion.....i dunno....

D
 
If level clipping isn't the answer, perhaps it is bit rates. I have noticed this now as I work on putting music and sound to a video recorded on a Digital Hi 8 camera. Apparantly the camera records or at least the capture software captures sound at 32k. My audio software doesn't have that as a possible setting. So when I import a DV into Sonar with 32k sound I get all sorts of gross clipping and noise and I can barely hear any original sound. When I first convert the video to a compressed avi with 41.1k sampling I get no problems.

Could this be your problem?
 
stonepiano said:
Was this resolved? If not, here's some more input.

not the strings. How that would even be possible is beyond me.
Click to expand...

It's called a "joke" ;)
 
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