C1 and B1 Appear to have same Frequency Response Curves

[Robertt8]

According to the Studio Projects website, the frequency response curves seem to be exactly the same for the C1 and the B1. Can that be right? Wouldn't that make them sound about the same?

 

[chessparov]

They sound totally different, yet are both good vocal microphones that can work great on many singers.
The C's are more "assertive", the B's more "neutral".

Trust your ears, not the frequency graphs.

Chris

 

[Robertt8]

gotchya...

what exactly are those charts for then?

 

[chessparov]

To keep us awake at night wondering what they mean.

Seriously, even slight differences can make a huge difference.

Chris

 

[Justin Hyatt]

The charts are often requested which is why we've put them up, and I like to have a pelthera of information on our products on the site. I'm all for having the most info on our site and not the literature I'd rather see people use the web not paper. But like chess said, charts do not reflect sound, put your trust in your ears if you like what you hear go for it if not try something else.

 

[Glawfindle]

The charts are often requested which is why we've put them up, and I like to have a pelthera of information on our products on the site. I'm all for having the most info on our site and not the literature I'd rather see people use the web not paper. But like chess said, charts do not reflect sound, put your trust in your ears if you like what you hear go for it if not try something else.

I agree with most of what you're saying Justin but.........'charts do not reflect sound.' Sound isn't easy to describe sometimes, is it? I thought that charts must reflect sound in SOME way. I agree that sound is the most important thing, definitely, and everyone should ideally demo a selection of mics b4 choosing, but to say that 'charts do not reflect' sound? What does it mean then when the SP website has the freq. resp. graph of the B1 and there is about a 5dB peak at around 10-11kHz? Does this reflect the sound or character of the mic at all? Does the B1 sound 'neutral' or 'flat' or is there a noticeable high freq. boost around 10-11kHz?

Are you saying that end users should not bother comparing specifications AT ALL, but just listen to them?

And I understand that the capsule often has a large bearing on the frequency responce of a mic. If this is true, and if the B1 and C1 have an almost identical freq. resp. graph - does this mean that they use the same capsule?

I guess you are correct in saying that charts do not reflect sound - especially if the charts are the same but the two mics sound different. What effects the difference in sound between the B1 and C1 then? Is it something to do with the the electronics or components? What has the main bearing on sound? Shouldn't the frequency response indicate a greater difference between the B1 and C1 - because they sound quite different? I thought that the B1 would have a flatter freq. resp. graph??

Please explain, cheers

 

[chessparov]

A big factor is that our hearing doesn't have a flat frequency response.
Ever notice how a crying baby's wail will cut through a noisy restaurant?


Chris

 

[Glawfindle]

A big factor is that our hearing doesn't have a flat frequency response.
Ever notice how a crying baby's wail will cut through a noisy restaurant?


Chris

What effect does A-weighting have?

Isn't a baby's wail often around 1-2kHz which is where our hearing is quite sensitive? Isn't this more of a reason to hear this in a noisy (consisting mainly of lower frequencies) restaurant? So the babys wail - cuts through or over the top....maybe the wail is simply louder too?

 

[Glawfindle]

I agree with most of what you're saying Justin but.........'charts do not reflect sound.' Sound isn't easy to describe sometimes, is it? I thought that charts must reflect sound in SOME way. I agree that sound is the most important thing, definitely, and everyone should ideally demo a selection of mics b4 choosing, but to say that 'charts do not reflect' sound? What does it mean then when the SP website has the freq. resp. graph of the B1 and there is about a 5dB peak at around 10-11kHz? Does this reflect the sound or character of the mic at all? Does the B1 sound 'neutral' or 'flat' or is there a noticeable high freq. boost around 10-11kHz?

Are you saying that end users should not bother comparing specifications AT ALL, but just listen to them?

And I understand that the capsule often has a large bearing on the frequency responce of a mic. If this is true, and if the B1 and C1 have an almost identical freq. resp. graph - does this mean that they use the same capsule?

I guess you are correct in saying that charts do not reflect sound - especially if the charts are the same but the two mics sound different. What effects the difference in sound between the B1 and C1 then? Is it something to do with the the electronics or components? What has the main bearing on sound? Shouldn't the frequency response indicate a greater difference between the B1 and C1 - because they sound quite different? I thought that the B1 would have a flatter freq. resp. graph??

Please explain, cheers

Justin, Alan - really want your take on specs and want to learn how much notice you think we should be taking of them. Think it would be good for everyone...thanks

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Didn't I cover mic specs, and how to read them, in the "big thread" around page 6 or so?

 

[DJL]

Yes, you sure did cover that subject already... and thanks for covering it too.

 

[Robertt8]

I'm sure you did cover that somewhere in the 630 replies. I'll have to take a few weeks off to siphon through the worthless replies and the useful ones. I got to about page 4 when I ran out of paper.

 

[DJL]

I'm sure you did cover that somewhere in the 630 replies. I'll have to take a few weeks off to siphon through the worthless replies and the useful ones. I got to about page 4 when I ran out of paper.

Lol , but on the other hand.... it's a great thread and you'll learn a lot from it, I know I did, and I'm still learning. You might as well take time time to read it now... I'm pretty sure all the regulars here have read it more than just once. I still refer to it.

 

[Brent Casey]

According to the Studio Projects website, the frequency response curves seem to be exactly the same for the C1 and the B1. Can that be right? Wouldn't that make them sound about the same?

Hey Robert,

The frequency response curves of the B1 and C1 are different. For most of the bandwidth, the mics response's are fairly linear, although the B1 shows a slightly better low end response. The big difference is in the upper mids and highs. If you take another look at the graphs, you may notice:
B1 C1
+1dB @ 3kHz +1dB @ 4kHz
+2dB @ 5kHz +2dB @ 7kHz
+4dB @ 8kHz +4dB @ 10kHz
+5dB @ 10.5kHz +5dB @ 12kHz
+2dB @ 15kHz +3dB @ 15kHz

Graphs are made up to give the engineer an idea as to how the average model of mic responds to the audio bandwidth in a very general sense. The response curves show the mic's response to an oscillator doing a sine wave sweep at a certain speed. This tells you nothing of the mic's transient response, which guages how accurately a mic can react to and track a waveform and that, my friends, is a much more defining characteristic in determining the overall flavor and performance of a mic. Frequency response can by no means be relied upon to provide one with such information. It is a fairly general facet of the mic's performance only. In other words, knowing the horsepower doesn't tell you how it handles in the corners.
Also, there is no standardization of microphone measurements, so who's to say that Shanghai Sam's microphone factory is even performing frequency response tests the same way as, say, Latvian Lloyd? I guarantee there is a difference from place to place.
Frequency response is what it is. It's useful in a general sense, but you gots to remember, "the map is not the territory" and there are a whole lot of other variables that you must consider in determining the sound the mic is going to give you, not the least of which is your room, folks. You can't just hang everything on it.
I'm sorry, what was the question?

Regards,

Brent Casey
Studio Projects Microphones
877-563-6335

 

[Brent Casey]

Re: Re: C1 and B1 Appear to have same Frequency Response Curves

B1 C1
+1dB @ 3kHz +1dB @ 4kHz
+2dB @ 5kHz +2dB @ 7kHz
+4dB @ 8kHz +4dB @ 10kHz
+5dB @ 10.5kHz +5dB @ 12kHz
+2dB @ 15kHz +3dB @ 15kHz

Looks like my little chart got all smunched up.

 

[Robertt8]

no prob. I know what you're getting at.

thanks.

 

[acorec]

According to the Studio Projects website, the frequency response curves seem to be exactly the same for the C1 and the B1. Can that be right? Wouldn't that make them sound about the same?

"Sound" is a subjective term. The freq graphs are a measure of the gain vs. freq curve. Since mics are capacators, they have "rolloff" at certain frequencies. These "rolloff" frequencies are designed in. The graphs only tell you, at a glance, what sounds would benefit from the measured mic. It is like ingredients on food. You can guess what the food will taste like based on the
listing of ingredients. You cannot really know what it tastes like until you try it. So, the graphs tell you what the mic is capable of and a measure that the design matches the actual mic measured.