Best way to use ECM8000s?

[laptoppop]

After reading posts in this forum, I went out and got 2 Behringer ECM8000 mics. I'm going to try them first on acoustic guitar. I'll be experimenting heavily, but I'd like to know - what has given the best sound for you?

1) Over the shoulder and 12th fret?
2) 12 fret and bridge?
3) They are omni...does it make sense to try x-y stereo miking at the 12 fret?
4) Anything else?

Thanks to this forum, and especially to Harvey -- the knowledge here is awesome!

-lee-

 

[riotshield]

I owned an ECM8000, and I didn't like how it sounded close mic'ing on acoustic guitar...it sounded kind of dull and not 'focused' enough. It sounded better when used with my Marshall MXL603. Even so, the Marshall was about 80% of the sound, the ECM8000 added some ambient sound. I think it was because the ECM8000 is an omni and the Marshall is a cardioid, and I was recording in my bedroom.

BTW I recorded the Marshall pointed ~6 in. from the 15th fret and the ECM8000 over the shoulder

 

[laptoppop]

Thanks! I would expect the room to be a big part of the sound. I'm lucky in that regard - I love the sound in the recording room.

Here's another thought - I've got some nice large diaphram condensors - how about mixing the two... would it work well to use the LD on the 12 fret, and the ECM8000 on the bridge/right below?

-lee-

 

[chessrock]

Thanks! I would expect the room to be a big part of the sound. I'm lucky in that regard - I love the sound in the recording room.

Here's another thought - I've got some nice large diaphram condensors - how about mixing the two... would it work well to use the LD on the 12 fret, and the ECM8000 on the bridge/right below?

-lee-

Don't position them too close to each other. You will get phase problems. Spread 'em out a little more, but you got the idea.

 

[laptoppop]

Don't position them too close to each other. You will get phase problems. Spread 'em out a little more, but you got the idea.

Right - the 3:1 rule rules

What about x-y with two of them? Is it even worth trying, or do you really need a cardiod pattern to pull it off?

OK, here's where I go REALLY crazy.... what if I wrapped a 3x5 card rolled into a tube onto the end of the mic? Would that tend to make the mic less omnidirectional?

Thanks,
-lee-

 

[FZfile]

this worked for me n an Ovation

I recorded an acoutic tune and accidentally stumble across a great sound while experimenting with my brand new 8000's.

This probably would not work on a lot of acoutics but on the Ovation (celeberty or applause....dont remember which) I couldn't get a sound I liked by puting the 8000 over the shoulder ....

......I couldn't get that "focused sound" as riotshield put it, so I stuck the mic about 1/2inch away from the larger of the upper sound holes. Actually I tried all of the sound holes and this one sounded balanced and not boomy or punchy.

I got a really sweet lead/melody tone.

I actually recorded my NT3 at 3' away and aimed at the lower end of the bridge AND a DI'd direct signal out of the guitar's preamp (which is not great on that guitar) at the same time and for the melody line I just took the 8000 track..(altough I did put it through the STEREO MIc sim on my VS880 to fatten it up a little in the mix.)

Anyway...that was my lucky experiment and it worked well.
But it was about the 10th psition I tried with the mic and overall I would say it was the best sound I've recorded with that mic so far.

Like I said though, it probably wouldnt work in a lot of guitars with a standard soundhole because it would be too boomy.


Just keep experimenting, you'll find a position that works for you.

-mike

 

[chessrock]

Right - the 3:1 rule rules

Maybe stretch that out to 4 (or 5) to 1 when using an omni/cardiod combo. I just get all sorts of phase problems with that kind of setup unless I space them further apart than recommended.

What about x-y with two of them?

Na.


OK, here's where I go REALLY crazy.... what if I wrapped a 3x5 card rolled into a tube onto the end of the mic? Would that tend to make the mic less omnidirectional?

That's some good stuff, but before you go through all that trouble, you might just want to switch to a cardiod.

 

[chessrock]

Re: this worked for me n an Ovation

I stuck the mic about 1/2inch away from the larger of the upper sound holes. Actually I tried all of the sound holes and this one sounded balanced and not boomy or punchy.

I got a really sweet lead/melody tone.

That's funny you mention that. I tried the same hole once, and had similar good results. It is a funny guitar, but once you get used to it, it's very possible to get a super-sweet recording with one of them.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I dont really like using just ECM's on guitar. I do like one at the 12th fret with an LD over the bridge.

 

[laptoppop]

OK, here's where I go REALLY crazy.... what if I wrapped a 3x5 card rolled into a tube onto the end of the mic? Would that tend to make the mic less omnidirectional?

That's some good stuff, but before you go through all that trouble, you might just want to switch to a cardiod.

Ahhh, but I don't HAVE a small diaphram condensor with a cardiod pattern. I DO have 3x5 cards!

-lee-

 

[laptoppop]

I dont really like using just ECM's on guitar. I do like one at the 12th fret with an LD over the bridge.

Cool! One more position to try.

Thanks!
-lee-

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Heh heh.

I actually have been concidering buying a large styrofoam craft ball (about head size) and cutting holes for my 2 ecm8000's and making a home binaural mic.

Anyone else wanna try it and tell me if it works?

I tried XY just to prove what I've been told- not worth the effort. With the omnis the placement is really important- especially if your room is a little iffy. They are fun mics, but...yeah, my room kinda sucks. I like to hide behind a nice cardioid...

Let us know how the 3x5's work!

Take care,
Chris

 

[littledog]

OK, here's where I go REALLY crazy.... what if I wrapped a 3x5 card rolled into a tube onto the end of the mic? Would that tend to make the mic less omnidirectional?

I'm guessing it's probably going to sound pretty terrible. First of all, mic designers spend almost as much effort trying to design a good sounding enclosure around the capsule as they do designing the capsule itself. A good example is the huge improvement in sound between the Octava 219 and 319, which are identical except for the design of the enclosure/grill.

Secondly, any flimsily improvised enclosure will deflect (and reflect) different frequencies with different efficiency, altering the sound of the mic as well as the pattern (in a way that will most likely unpleasant).

Of course it won't hurt anything to try, but with all the incredibly cheap small diaphragm cardioid condensers out there, do yourself a favor and get yourself an early Christmas present. Good luck!

 

[darrin_h2000]

I actually have been concidering buying a large styrofoam craft ball (about head size) and cutting holes for my 2 ecm8000's and making a home binaural mic.

Anyone else wanna try it and tell me if it works?



Ive been considering just going down to the Bad part of town and looking for a corpse to try that with as to not compromize the experiment with an inferior material such as styrophone.


I may reccomend a stylists wig model head with all of the contours of a real head, It may be easier to explain than that rotting corpse smell in the studio.

 

[chessrock]

Ive been considering just going down to the Bad part of town and looking for a corpse to try that with as to not compromize the experiment with an inferior material such as styrophone.

That would be . . . uh . . . interesting. lol.

I've tried the binaural thing with the 8000's. Logistically, it's a little tough to get going, but it's worth it. The sound is VERY cool. Particularly with headphones, but the stereo separation is still good and natural over normal monitors.

If you can work it out, a binaural deal is sort of a no-brainer as a drum overhead. It looks really silly. Your clients will get a kick out of it. I had a few who put a wig over mine, and started drawing some funny faces on it for me. At least now it has some personality.

I have an example if anyone's interested. On the tune "Blue Baby Gone," I recorded someone playing spoons in the right "ear," while another guy played a maraca in the other. You can hear it particularly at the very end. Cool stereo spread:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1298&alid=-1

 

[tyler657recpro]

Neumann makes a head shaped thing with mics already built in, but i think it would cost a hulluva lot more than two ecm8000s and some styrofoam or a dead corpse

 

[knownuttin]

Is there really a "bad part" of op, ks?
-kent

 

[consciouspilate]

chess could you post a pic of your head.... i'm interested, sounds delicious...

 

[littledog]

.

If you can work it out, a binaural deal is sort of a no-brainer as a drum overhead.

Oh.... I get it!