grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Interesting. In "Revolution in the head" Ian McDonald references "Ticket to ride" as being the forerunner to "Tomorrow Never Knows", drum-wise.
Paul plays lead guitar on "Ticket to ride."
Being a Home Recorder, but lacking real talent. (Confessions of a hack)
- Thread starter DM60
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Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Forgive my ignorance, Ian McDonald the keyboard player/multi instrumentalist from King Crimson and Foreigner? He's (was) a writer as well? I'm probably mixing up people.
Yeah, that never occurred to me until this morning, complete w/ drone. That'd probably be cool to throw those two into a mashup, or medley.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
No, Ian McDonald the writer who unfortunately is no longer with us. He suffered with depression. He killed himself.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Well that's, unfortunate. I could look it up, who is the keyboard player/multi instrumentalist?
Yeah, that didn't sound like George on Ticket to Ride lead. Thinking back to The End lead trade offs(George, then Paul, the John?), a couple of those licks sounded more like John....although at times throughout the years Paul has a more interesting style. Taxman, for instance.
Yeah, that didn't sound like George on Ticket to Ride lead. Thinking back to The End lead trade offs(George, then Paul, the John?), a couple of those licks sounded more like John....although at times throughout the years Paul has a more interesting style. Taxman, for instance.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Never mind. Same name, different people.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
That's the ex- army guy that played with King Crimson on their debut album. He left with the drummer Mike Giles, during Crimson's first tour of the USA.
I'm actually fascinated that you can tell. I can't tell who plays what on the Beatles' songs. I can't even tell the difference between Ringo drumming, Paul drumming and John Paul and George drumming together {Back in the USSR}. I can't tell when George or John is on bass.
But I can make out their voices in backing and harmony vocals. I can hear George and Paul in particular. And I can hear Ringo prominently in "Flying" and "Carry that weight."
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Well you have it pinned better than I. Drumming and bass, I wouldn't have a clue....although if someone pointed it out to me it'd probably be obvious and one of those things I could never unhear.
The End, to me John is more clear & obvious, raw, bluesy, distorted & a growl, probably a casino or 335. 3rd one in line. I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between George and Paul. George being more put together, been there done that professional sounding. Paul being the more innovative, charting a new course of sorts. Of course I'm only guessing, though seems pretty obvious John is 3rd up.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
...although recently we spoke of one that you said George played bass. Hm....She Said She Said! I don't know, to me still sounds like Paul on bass. But, Paul would never make up a story about the bass being George.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Oh no, I just listened to The End and I think I may have changed my mind. Going by the theory that George is more been there done that professional, I'm thinking maybe George is 2nd in line So it's Paul, George, then definitely John.
Do you know?...from the books you've read?
Do you know?...from the books you've read?
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Okay, yeah, according to wiki, if correct, on The End lead guitar trade offs, it's Paul, then George, then John.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
According to Geoff Emerick, you're absolutely right. McDonald concurs. As does John. Geoff said the solos were played live, one after the other and on different guitars and through different amps so they would all sound particular to the player.
Until I read John's interview with Jann Wenner from 1970, I had no idea it was all three of them. He said:
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
It's that droning guitar that would be one of the chief elements in it as a heavy rock number.
That's an interesting way of looking at it.
But I think that when a conglomerate of people collaborate on a venture of any kind, some of those people will always see things that could have been done differently, even if the project was wildly successful. There may well be things that they've had to defer on that they thought they had better ideas for.
George Lucas will always have my undying criticism for the changes he's made to the films in the Star Wars franchise with successive DVDs. But it's paradoxical because I completely understand him wanting to make changes. Often with songs, albums, movies and even books, the pressure to stick to a deadline introduces compromises that the creative elements regret at the time and as time goes by, these just eat away at them and they want to correct them if they can. What is unfortunate for them is that the rest of the world may have fallen in love with the product as is and don't care for the changes. I'm a leading culprit of that !
#Then again, I've re-recorded many songs that didn't come out as I felt they should have so while I criticise those that do this, I also won't criticize them for it !
To be fair to him, in 1970, he said there were things on "John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band" that he'd like to improve. And that was why I swung the point around to mirror what DM60 had said about his finished works never being what he envisaged in his head.
For me, I long ago acknowledged that a song was going to change in some way, shape or form the moment another player/vocalist's skills were brought into the project.
I generally hate remixes. As I've noted a few times before, once a song has insinuated itself into my consciousness over many moons, that's it. Don't change it. Don't even tell me about the remixes' existence. I'll chase you down the road with an upraised broom or mop !
I wouldn't bother to listen to a remix of "Ticket to ride" because I'm haplessly and hopelessly in love with the 1965 "Help !" version. I fell in love with it the first time I heard it, in July 1976.
But......
I can honestly see what John means about it as a heavy rock track. On my ipod, you can just repeat play and so as I was cycling around for an hour+, I listened to it over and over. Bump up the guitars and bass up the drums a bit and make the overall level loud {Dang ! I'm talking like someone in the MP3 clinic !!} and it's heavy rock.
But a funny thing happened to me in 2019. I found that I was really getting irritated by the stereo mixes of the Beatles and the Pretty Things from the 1960s. Some of the Beatles' ones were OK, like "Help !" and "Ticket to ride" and a few others but many of them were kind of lame. And I'd loved these songs for 40 years+ and never really worried about the mixes before. In fact, I'd previously quite liked the stereo separation, or perhaps more accurately, found them interesting. I don't know what it was that got to me, whether it was the bass and drums in one channel, the vocals in another and maybe some lead guitar and tambourine and shakers in the centre, but it just started feeling "off." So I highlighted which tracks annoyed me {it was most of them !} and put them through Audacity and converted them to mono. I had always been, if not exactly an opponent of mono, then certainly one that tended to see mono as a poor relation to the glories of stereo. My "Hard Day's Night" had long been in mono and I had no problem with it.
Anyway, I converted most of them to mono and I think my "Audacity stereo that are now mono" Beatle albums sound great. The White album stands out because I remember putting it through my cassette recorder as I went from my CD player to my CD recorder. The cassette player had independent left and right mic channels so if I felt one of the songs or a part of a song wasn't well balanced on both channels, I could easily equalize them. And when I came to "Audacitize" it to mono, I got a wicked mono mix.
The same thing happened with the Pretty Things' "SF Sorrow." As much as I highly rate Norman Smith for his work with the Beatles, the Pink Floyd and the Pretty Things, I think some of his production work with the Floyd and the Pretties is pretty shoddy. The stereo version of "SF Sorrow" has some terrible bits but these are corrected when converted to mono. Whereas his stereo mix of "Parachute" is bloody marvellous.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
grimtraveller said:
Well the way I look at it, and hear it, as far as the 3 lead guitar trade-offs on The End: Pretty simple, although I could have just as easily been wrong in guessing Paul or George. Maybe. John is a rhythm guitar player, and rooted in rock n roll. His licks are going to probably be in the lower register where he is more accustomed and comfortable, more primitive and roots based, consisting of chord based double stops...think Johnny b good, cept maybe a little different. He or that kind of guitar player might also rely more on heavier distortion to enhance his limited ability. George is going to be more refined, sophisticated yet recognizably predictable to other (lead) guitar players. If the first go 'round doesn't give it away, the second lead in the second go 'round does. That's a more seasoned guitar player lick. Actually all three times around it is evident the second guitar is the more seasoned player, George. That leaves the other has to be Paul.
Paul, then George, then John.
At least that's the way I see it. Not trying to be a know it all, just offering an explanation and my 2 cents.
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