darrin_h2000
Banned
Yeah, Im curios if there are more like them.
C
chessrock
Banned
I sure hoe my words are tasy, cuz I just might have to eat them.
Uh-oh.
I just realized something.
If what Mr. Hyatt is saying is correct, then I believe I may have to tame my enthusiasm regarding this mic. From what I have gathered, the JM-47 is rumored to be the "exact same" mic as the Marshall MXL-2001P. This can't be too good of a thing. Alan, I'm merely repeating rumors I have heard elsewhere, so don't think I'm trying to bash the JM-47. Just curious to know if this is true.
Here are just a few quotes I was able to gather up about the 2001:
"The 2001 is everything that I don't like about all the really inexpensive large diaphragm condensor mics that I've listened to over the years . . . " - Studio-tanned Harvey Gerst
"The first MXL2001 we received sounded so bad that we thought it must be damaged. The second one didn't sound any better. Here's my recommendation. Spend your money somewhere else." - Bruce Richardson, Prorec
Hmmm. I sure am glad people don't follow Chessrock's advice around here about mics.
Uh-oh.
I just realized something.
If what Mr. Hyatt is saying is correct, then I believe I may have to tame my enthusiasm regarding this mic. From what I have gathered, the JM-47 is rumored to be the "exact same" mic as the Marshall MXL-2001P. This can't be too good of a thing. Alan, I'm merely repeating rumors I have heard elsewhere, so don't think I'm trying to bash the JM-47. Just curious to know if this is true.
Here are just a few quotes I was able to gather up about the 2001:
"The 2001 is everything that I don't like about all the really inexpensive large diaphragm condensor mics that I've listened to over the years . . . " - Studio-tanned Harvey Gerst
"The first MXL2001 we received sounded so bad that we thought it must be damaged. The second one didn't sound any better. Here's my recommendation. Spend your money somewhere else." - Bruce Richardson, Prorec
Hmmm. I sure am glad people don't follow Chessrock's advice around here about mics.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Gidge said:
Your contributions are getting better Gidge. This one is totally useless! Care to expand to the rest of this group where the Spam lies? Or is just another opportunity to get the post count up?
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Re: I sure hoe my words are tasy, cuz I just might have to eat them.
Chess, if you re-read my post you will see that I said the USA version. The 2001 is like the Joemeek JM-47 UK version. In fact, they are both made by Fielo...not that that is bad, but the Behringer is the same as the Joemeek USA version of the JM-47 which is done by 797, and that is just like the BPM CR-10. I was only pointing out that the Behringer B1 and the USA version are the same. For the record so Gidge does not go off the handle with the Spam issue again, I said they sounded good. So you don't have to take back your opinions as I think you were just a bit confused by my post.
Alan Hyatt
chessrock said:
Chess, if you re-read my post you will see that I said the USA version. The 2001 is like the Joemeek JM-47 UK version. In fact, they are both made by Fielo...not that that is bad, but the Behringer is the same as the Joemeek USA version of the JM-47 which is done by 797, and that is just like the BPM CR-10. I was only pointing out that the Behringer B1 and the USA version are the same. For the record so Gidge does not go off the handle with the Spam issue again, I said they sounded good. So you don't have to take back your opinions as I think you were just a bit confused by my post.
Alan Hyatt
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
aw Alan im just picking.......
Whoopysnorp
New member
Harvey Gerst said:
Wow, I had no idea I'd been looking at advice from somebody who hung out with the great FZ from time to time. Zappa was a truly great composer, and discovering his work about four and a half years ago changed my musical direction entirely.
C
chessrock
Banned
Alan,
Thanks for clarifying. I guess the only real concern I have about the JM 47 is that the word "harsh" is used by most everyone who reviews it or comments on it. Rip Rowan even mentions that word in his prorec review, which is mostly neutral. Could it be that he was reviewing the UK version, Alan?
I have heard that word tossed around a lot in regards to the NT1 as well. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with any of these models, but I do have experience with the NT2 and the Behringer B-2. These have similar 12 khz bumps, but they are able to accomplish it without any nasty harshness, at least to my ears. And I certainly haven't heard that word used in reviews of either models.
From an engineering standpoint, what is it about the 12 khz bump that works with some models and not with others?
Still, I guess it is best to trust your own ears, and when I briefly auditioned the B1, it sounded pretty smooth to my ears. I might just have to take it for another spin, though.
I would be very interested though, Alan, in hearing more of your thoughts on this topic in greater detail. I have heard you mention in other posts that the SP's and Marshalls, for instance, are not "straight off the assebly line" copies of other 797 mics. Is it possible that Behringer could have made some similar modifications to the design of the B1? Or is it the EXACT - SAME - MIC?
I'd even welcome some of your thoughts on the SP models and especially the B-1 since it is in such a good price range. And no, I won't consider it spam so ignore Gidge. I started this thread, so I grant you licence to talk up SP as long as you impart good mic knowlege at the same time. If anyone complains, just tell them it was Chessrock's fault for asking.
My brain is hungry. Need more mic knowlege! I want to know!
Thanks for clarifying. I guess the only real concern I have about the JM 47 is that the word "harsh" is used by most everyone who reviews it or comments on it. Rip Rowan even mentions that word in his prorec review, which is mostly neutral. Could it be that he was reviewing the UK version, Alan?
I have heard that word tossed around a lot in regards to the NT1 as well. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with any of these models, but I do have experience with the NT2 and the Behringer B-2. These have similar 12 khz bumps, but they are able to accomplish it without any nasty harshness, at least to my ears. And I certainly haven't heard that word used in reviews of either models.
From an engineering standpoint, what is it about the 12 khz bump that works with some models and not with others?
Still, I guess it is best to trust your own ears, and when I briefly auditioned the B1, it sounded pretty smooth to my ears. I might just have to take it for another spin, though.
I would be very interested though, Alan, in hearing more of your thoughts on this topic in greater detail. I have heard you mention in other posts that the SP's and Marshalls, for instance, are not "straight off the assebly line" copies of other 797 mics. Is it possible that Behringer could have made some similar modifications to the design of the B1? Or is it the EXACT - SAME - MIC?
I'd even welcome some of your thoughts on the SP models and especially the B-1 since it is in such a good price range. And no, I won't consider it spam so ignore Gidge.
I started this thread, so I grant you licence to talk up SP as long as you impart good mic knowlege at the same time. If anyone complains, just tell them it was Chessrock's fault for asking. My brain is hungry. Need more mic knowlege! I want to know!
Last edited:
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Chess,
Well again, reviewers do hear differently. I can point you to two reviews on the USA JM-47 that differ from Rip's. Not that Rip's is not valid, but again we deal with opinions and how every reviewer hears, so you either take the review for what its worth, or ignore them.
http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/december00/JoeMeekTrackPak-Web.shtml
http://www.musicgearreview.com/reviews/joemeek-tp-47-trakpak.htm
I don't really want to get into the off the shelf issue in detail. Marshall claims they have made upgrades, and Harvey back's that up. Other brands make that claim as well. I guess the only way to determin that is to look at an older version of any Chinese brand, say two years old, and a new one. If you see the change, then fine.
I can say that up until a year ago, all the different brands coming from Soundking and Fielo were the same off the shelf mics China sells with several brand names on them. Again, this is not bad, because they sounded pretty good.
Behringer could have made some changes in the B2 and B1, but I am suspicious of their engineering department based on all the rip-offs they did with Aphex, DBX, and Mackie, so I can only guess that these are clones of the 797 CR100 or 616. You can find these models at:
http://www.797audio.com/html/product3.htm
You can see how they look exactly like the Behringer. It also looks just like the Joemeek USA JM47 in Black, which has been out for a few years.
In closing, I think the US market is getting more educated on Chinese mics, thank's to me spilling my guts, but that way the buyer can at least make a good decision when buying them. The good thing is, they are so affordable now, that users can buy them all if they want. You can have a seriously good mic cabinet today with an investment of between $750.00 and $1,500.00.
As for the B Series, well let's wait until they get here. When they ship, the reviewers will do their thing, the buyers will report their findings, and we will go through the whole mess again, just like the C Series. All I will say is the B Series is a seriously good sounding, well built mic. It is not as good as the C1 in my opinion, but it is different...just like other brands. The Beta sites are using them and I have been using them, so from an engineers point of view, they are very good, and work very well, but time will be their judge.
regards,
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
Well again, reviewers do hear differently. I can point you to two reviews on the USA JM-47 that differ from Rip's. Not that Rip's is not valid, but again we deal with opinions and how every reviewer hears, so you either take the review for what its worth, or ignore them.
http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/december00/JoeMeekTrackPak-Web.shtml
http://www.musicgearreview.com/reviews/joemeek-tp-47-trakpak.htm
I don't really want to get into the off the shelf issue in detail. Marshall claims they have made upgrades, and Harvey back's that up. Other brands make that claim as well. I guess the only way to determin that is to look at an older version of any Chinese brand, say two years old, and a new one. If you see the change, then fine.
I can say that up until a year ago, all the different brands coming from Soundking and Fielo were the same off the shelf mics China sells with several brand names on them. Again, this is not bad, because they sounded pretty good.
Behringer could have made some changes in the B2 and B1, but I am suspicious of their engineering department based on all the rip-offs they did with Aphex, DBX, and Mackie, so I can only guess that these are clones of the 797 CR100 or 616. You can find these models at:
http://www.797audio.com/html/product3.htm
You can see how they look exactly like the Behringer. It also looks just like the Joemeek USA JM47 in Black, which has been out for a few years.
In closing, I think the US market is getting more educated on Chinese mics, thank's to me spilling my guts, but that way the buyer can at least make a good decision when buying them. The good thing is, they are so affordable now, that users can buy them all if they want. You can have a seriously good mic cabinet today with an investment of between $750.00 and $1,500.00.
As for the B Series, well let's wait until they get here. When they ship, the reviewers will do their thing, the buyers will report their findings, and we will go through the whole mess again, just like the C Series. All I will say is the B Series is a seriously good sounding, well built mic. It is not as good as the C1 in my opinion, but it is different...just like other brands. The Beta sites are using them and I have been using them, so from an engineers point of view, they are very good, and work very well, but time will be their judge.
regards,
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
C
chessrock
Banned
alanhyatt said:
This is all very interesting. From what I am gathering, the Marshall 2001p, the Joemeek M47, and the Behringer B1 are all supposed to be essentially the same microphone (with the 2001p being more similar to the UK version of the JM47). Yet, a further look at their technical specifications shows a lot of variations in areas like dynamic range, maximum SPL, S/N ratio, sensitivity, etc., among all three mics.
Perhaps the biggest difference I noticed was in the frequency response curves. I'm afraid I was unable to locate one for the JM47 (or the 797s), but there are major differences between the other two: The Marshall, often criticized for it's harshness, actually has a relatively flat frequency response. Very slight bump, in fact, in the 10khz area.
The frequency response of the Behringer shows a pretty flat plane all the way up to about 3khz, where you see a very large and noticeable teepee forming, who's tip is at about 10khz. ________/
Curiously enough, I checked out the freq. response on the Rode NT2 and the Behringer B2. And as I suspected, they're basically carbon copies. The NT2, B2 and B1 all have that same basic flatness with the teepee at the end.
Now I'm not trying to argue with you, Alan, but I am trying to point out what I've noticed. And it looks to me, at casual glance, that they are similar looking, similarly-built, yet still significantly different microphones.
If anything, based on the frequency response graphs, I would say that the GREATEST similarities are between the NT2 and the Behringers. And based on all the other details, it appears the NT2 and B2 really ARE close to the same exact mic.
On a side note, I'm just curious: I know about the Mackies and Drawmers, but which Aphex and DBX models did Behringer copy?
Thanks again, Alan. I really do find all of this quite interesting.
crazydoc
Master Baiter
Interesting info here in light of the "mighty mics" thread. Seems that chessrock, aka moon unit sound, was stroking himself (and Behringer) a bit here. Maybe just a bit disingenuous.
BTW the correct link to moon unit sound is http://www.geocities.com/moonunitsl/
BTW the correct link to moon unit sound is http://www.geocities.com/moonunitsl/
W
wilkee
New member
This is a private message for "me mate" Ausrock.
Do you get the idea this is a private club and no one reads any of us Ignoramuses Fukin posts?
Best Regards
Tony
Do you get the idea this is a private club and no one reads any of us Ignoramuses Fukin posts?
Best Regards
Tony
ausrock
Well-known member
Tony,
It took me a minute to realise that this thread is a year old, and has returned to the surface to haunt us
.
I must get around to reducing the size of these mic pcb images and post them here.
Cya
It took me a minute to realise that this thread is a year old, and has returned to the surface to haunt us
.I must get around to reducing the size of these mic pcb images and post them here.
Cya
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Behringer cloned DBX's mini mic pre.
And I read all your fukin' posts mate.
And I read all your fukin' posts mate.
W
wilkee
New member
ausrock said:Tony,
It took me a minute to realise that this thread is a year old, and has returned to the surface to haunt us
OOPS
Tony
S
Sklathill
Soundcard Junkie
WHich came first? The DBX mini pre or the ART Tube MP? I was under the impression that the ART came first...?
D
DJL
Self Banned
alanhyatt said:
I understand that Harvey got this info about this from Brent Casey who did the upgrades and confirms this to be true? And don't worry Alan, I won't bite you... it's nice too have you back.
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cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
The funny thing about this thread is that I'm pretty sure chessrock has gone on record against the Behri B-1 recently.
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