applying eq during tracking

[maskedman72]

some people swear to not eq to tape but if i dont my drums sound like crap. i am using a mackie 24.8 going to 16 tracks of da-38. for mics i use mc012's for oh,and 57's for toms, audix d1 for snare, d112 for kick and 1 4033 for the room. i know that my mics arent the problem cause they are so common. the real question is this..........if i apply eq going to tape than i apply the same exact amount of eq in the same exact areas on play back am i doubling the eq and is this good? to my ear that is what sounds the best on playback, but i am worried about the doubling issue and funky things happening there. to my brain that isnt how it is supposed to work. does the mackies eq just plain suck?
thanks!!!!!

 

[chessrock]

does the mackies eq just plain suck?
thanks!!!!!

Yes, and you're welcome.

IMHO, your best options in terms of EQ are as follows (assuming we're dealing with a home-wrecker's budget):

* If you're doing the computer thing, I would highly recommend either Waves Linear EQ from their Masters Bundle, or Sonic Timeworks.

* If you're doing the outboard thing, I would look at trading in for a Soundcraft M-series board. They're really not that much more expensive than the Mackies, but the eq is worlds more usable. Good news is the Mackies hold their resale value quite well.

* If you want something that will perform at a much more professional level, and excellent for the money, check out:

http://www.mercenary.com/speckmodelasc1.html

 

[maskedman72]

yes right now i am looking at getting the speck transformer balanced eq from mercenary(to go with the mp2nv i am about to order) i hope that will help but still the issue of eq doubling......

 

[mixsit]

I'm curious why you add the same eq twice? In general, it's assumed every time you run through another circuit, the audio takes another small hit.
Wayne

 

[maskedman72]

i add it cause it just makes it sound so much better. i think that it has to do with the mackie eq just sucking.

i am guessing that if i boost something 5 bd to tape than i keep the same setting on playback i just boosted it 10 db right? i am thinking that you mabyee have to do this to get the mackie to the point to where it sounds good. yes i would assume that running through the eq circut twice might not be a good idea but man if you could come over and hear drums tracked flat vs. drums tracked the way i am talking about you would agree that it sounds WAY better!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

i add it cause it just makes it sound so much better. i think that it has to do with the mackie eq just sucking.

I'm guessing with it having more to do with being tracked with an appropriate signal chain in the first place, rather than blaming the on-board EQ.... Mackie's EQ, while it won't win any awards, is certainly usable....

The simple fact that you have to use so much EQ now points to a problem in your tracking technique and signal chain -- better tracking means having to reach for the EQ far less........!

 

[maskedman72]

yes i agree but i have tried mic placement and different mics and the sound dosent change all that much. mabyee my room sucks?
i would love to hear something that sounds good that was tracked with only a mackie. i dont think the sound is horrid but it seems that it should be better.

 

[littledog]

I will confess that while i almost never use eq during tracking, but there are occasional exceptions Sometimes there is a tom or some other instrument that seems to have an obnoxious resonant frequency. Usually in the case of a tom, retuning or a bit of tape on the heads can fix it, but if the fix process starts to take too long and the creative energy of the musicians is starting to wane, I'll just swallow my pride and notch the offensive ringing out with a parametric eq. I just don't admit it to anyone!

The other time i will use it is if i have a really high quality eq built into a pre (like the Daking) and I'm looking for a particular sound that mic position and selection alone seems to not quite achieve - especially on a more interesting instrument like a tuba or a djembe or something. I figure, if you never use the high end eq on your mic pres, it's a bit of a waste, after all!

 

[Scooter B]

Maskedman,

One other question I'm curious about especially as you are EQing x2 to get the sound where it sounds good to you...

What are you monitoring through?

Untill I found this site and started reading up I vastly underestimated the importance of good flat response monitors.

Does it sound good to you going to tape(er digital) but then you have to EQ again during the mix to get the sound right again OR does it just not sound right untill you have EQ'd twice?

If it sounds good with the first EQ as you set your levels etc during tracking but then need more EQ during playback to get the same desired sound again during playback I would have to wonder if your monitors or listening environment are playing havoc with your mix.

This happened to me as I mistakenly bought some Yamaha "monitors" with an NS and a 10 mixed in the model # at a pawn shop. Unfortunately they were not anything close to the infameous NS10's but actually on stage
"Hot Spot" type monitors that were very tinny and had no bass response.

FWIW just one other idea to check out or consider.

 

[maskedman72]

i monitor through event 20/20's. i think they sound good. eq'ing during tracking helps darsticlly in most cases but i do have to do more in the mix too. i dont like to eq during tracking but now it is a must to get the starting point i want. this is for drums only. espically toms.the rest sounds fine.

 

[Scooter B]

Well the Events 20/20's are supposed to be failry decent so I would have to go with the other previously mentioned recomendations from those wiser and more experienced than I.

Sound source, Mic placement and signal chain tweaking.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

...Unfortunately they were not anything close to the infameous NS10's but actually on stage
"Hot Spot" type monitors that were very tinny and had no bass response....

They may have worked.... "tinny and had no bass response" is pretty much the way NS-10s sound!!!!

 

[Scooter B]

"They may have worked.... "tinny and had no bass response" is pretty much the way NS-10s sound!!!!"


You know come to think of it.....LOL

No these were just awfull for mixing.

I would get a reasonably decent mix out for a 4-tracker cassette through these but when played through anything else you got the wall o' mud remix.

 

[Track Rat]

maskedman72, this is just a guess, but it sounds like it may be the drums themselves just don't record well. I've recorded quite a few different kits and they can all sound radicly different, even the same make and model drums. I had a guy come in not long ago with a new set of Premiers, obviously all new heads, double bass and a shit load of toms. One kick sounded OK, the other one was flabby. Both miked with D-112's. Swapped mics, tuned and tuned and fucked around with it for hours and the bottom line was the left kick suked and the right one was OK. Some drums just sound like shit. Also the player has a lot of influence on the way a kit sounds.

 

[VOXVENDOR]

I tried recording my drums with only 3 mics..... A shitty Apex bass Drum Mic.. a 57 on the snare, and one 4033 for an overhead....

I could never get a decent drum sound in my home studio....

Finally I rented some space that sounds good with high ceilings and deadend walls and I got this sound pretty much that first day with no problems........

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/rockpop/voxvendor/singles
"Drum Test"

What I am trying to say (and add a sample to back it up).. Is. I get a drum sound that makes me happy in this new room, with only 3 mics....

I could NEVER get a decent sound back home.... If your room isn't good, you might NEVER achieve the sound you want in it.....

Like what was mentioned above.. There might be a problem with the drums themselves too

I was stuck using samples and the like back home... But I had good drums.. My problem was the ceilings were low... So I had a load of reflections leaking back down into the mics...

So, Good Luck with it.. and really all im trying to say is that you can get a good sound with those mics your using, and you don't even need to be overly "perfect" with your placement...

I just threw mine up.. And got on with it...

What you have to look at is the kit your using and the room..

And, no, I don't EQ going to "tape." That means when you EQ on Mixdown, that Track will have double the eq on it... (right?)

You shouldn't have to use that much eq..

Joe