AGE OLD-Digital to Analog and Back?

[boriscrispin]

sorry to repeat - I can't for the life of me see how to delete this - "edit/delete...but no delete?"

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Incidentally, why would you possibly be slated for recommending the
Bellari? I suppose though - that is whole 'nother thread of fifty thousand replies/opinions.

Can you recommend any others, the dual channel on that Bellari is enticing - can't say no to a good 2 for 1...are there others with even more channels so that I can kill birds with varying stones in a more expensive but roundabout money-saving way? (undoubtedly I imagine the price starts to double)

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

you've probably had the experience of nudging a kick track over just a tiny fraction of an inch until you feel that woofer start jumping out of it's enclosure and pushing real air (you might even do it with your hand almost touching the woofer).

You move something over just a tiny fraction of a second, and suddenly it snaps right in to focus.

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit, Keith. Maybe I'm choosing words wrong. Phase is always going to be a factor, sure. But I've almost never had it be a problem that gave me that hard of a time getting where I needed to go in the mix. I come in here and read all this hand-wringing over phase and I wonder why everybody has to make everything so damn hard for themselves.

And to clear one other thing up before you might bring it up; when I refer to a single mono "mix" of drums, I'm assuming nothing more complicated than a single OH or possibly a single OH with a kick. Anything more than that and I'll go to a stereo submix.

But the whole idea that one needs to throw a bazillion mics on a single instrument in order to get it to sound good is just plain ludicrous except for a couple of small genres of music that depend upon that particular sound or capability. It's an idea that barely even existed until 24 track tape machines became common place. Yet somehow before then folks were able to crank out wonderful-sounding productions in all sorts of music genres spanning the range with a minimum of tracks needed for the drums, without breaking much of a sweat.

But to bring this back to the OP and his situation; boris, keep it simple. If you want "that sound", get in a studio or get the same gear and experience for yourself that the studio has.

If you want something that sounds serviceable but amateur, use what you got now. If you want something that sounds a bit better, good enough for radio or for a decent demo disc, get something in the lines of a quality 8-channel I/F. I can't comment on the ART, that is a relatively new entry that I know little about. But a decent Focusrite or similar *with some good quality mics* and some practice on your part can at least get you much closer to "that sound", though not all the way there, than you'll get with the 16G and a few 57s.

G.

 

[Daisy]

The Bellari has transformer input, and runs at full plate voltage, so it's close to a "real" tube mic pre. Getting back to the cat/dog analogy, it may be kind of an ugly mut, but at least it's still a dog.

More channels are going to run your budget in to bombastic proportions. Unless youg get something like an old Altec tube mixer off ebay and have someone fix it up for you. Again, a really old dog, but I'm sure it can still bark.

As for "sly little tricks," there are probably a million of them. But the slyest and least expensive trick would be to start shifting your focus far away from the recording gear. Stay away from boards like Gearslutz. It'll poison your mind. Stick to tried and true tracking methods that will get you the sound you want, at the source.

Try building a kick tunnel ... try the "towel on top of the snare" method (Ringo Star Circa Abbey Road). Try using old ribbon mics on drum overheads, and pick up some old electrovoice dynamic mics off ebay and try those where you might otherwise use an sm57. ... Look for an old spring reverb on ebay. Try "re-amping" your drums (and/or other tracks). Try re-amping your snare drum track with your snare drum pressed against the speaker. Millions of tracking techniques that will get you way further towards sounding what you think is merely "analog."

 

[boriscrispin]

Okay with what I know I intend to record armed with

4 x input - but capable of 24bit - firewire device.
As many good pre-amps as I am able to get hold of (individual or multi-channeled)
As many Mic's as I can get hold of - this is vague. Are there any mic suggestions? - I know that Electro Voice were mentioned, there seems to
be a plethora of them - also some of them appear to need re-wiring due to Hi-z issues...or something? Ideally I want to end up buying a MD 421 or two...any other good suggestions that might crop up on ebay that are relatively inexpensive?

From what I'll be doing in the first tracking session I'll be recording drums
with two (or one?) over-heads, one on the snare and one on the bass drum (to ensure control with beefyness come mixdown). Can i ask if this should kick up any phase issues (uh-oh), and as to what types of mic i.e dynamic or condenser would really be best for each job. I always assumed/am told a snare will be too harsh for a dynamic but inevitably I could be wrong. Bearing in mind, I would like a rich/thick sound - alot of it understandably is to do with the tuning/playing.

Is it worth investing in a bass-drum specific mic? and to get a good bass sound, is it worth recording the bass guitar with a bass specific mic - or will something simpler do the job equally as well

Lastly (in THIS session) I'll be recording a rhodes piano through a twin combo amp....dynamic mic best?

With the bass and rhodes taking two tracks - I will be left with two tracks for the drums, fine. Knowing this I think I'd prefer to use a mixer to add more inputs (only one or two), so I'll have to pick up a handy little mixer leaving me with one track of sub-mixed drums, and one track of a single drum - which would be the best choice for this single drum? the one track that will able to be fiddled with in mixing - snare or bass-drum...again any suggestions?

Sorry if/that these are run of the mill mundane novice questions, but you guys seem to know your stuff and I'm interested to know - I've already learned alot (check out the bold bits)....awwwww

I do realize that it is down to personal opinion alot of the time - sound that is desired in conjunction with what equipment one uses, but I'd like to get some ball park names/products to look into, bearing in mind generally that it is going to be swinging jazz-psych, almost exclusively non-distorted but with a strong (here i go again) Axelrod/van gelder/MPS affectiations (I know, I know I'm citing actual legends of production here, but you have to have VISION

warm & rich are keywords

Alex

 

[Daisy]

warm & rich are keywords

... Again, a function of the source and tracking technique.


That said, you seem to be kind of hung up on sort of a vintage thing. That being the assumption, then I would look here for overheads:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=beyer+ribbon&category0=

Secondly, I would look here at some dynamic mics :

http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...trt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=32&fsoo=2

And lastly, I would look at something like this as your mixer for when you submix your drums to one track - or whatever the heck it is you're planning to do:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=shure+scm268

Cheap mixer with Transormer-balanced inputs and outputs.

 

[boriscrispin]

hey thanks for the tip-offs, any particular Electro-voice you can recommend

also, with regards to using a mixer, often the phantom power is grouped, in this instace having a conderser mic that needed the power and a dynamic mic that didn't - both plugged in with phantom power on...would the dynamic suffer in any way? Is it a giant NO NO

 

[leddy]

You could track everything on the Yamaha and then bring it to a studio for mixing where you have access to good outboard gear and can sum it through a console to tape.

I know Massive gave you good advice to stay away from cassette, but I used to do a lot on a cassette four track that still sounds good to me. It has a sound - maybe good or bad depending on your POV. Tracking to a good cassette four track then mixing to digital is better than tracking digital and bouncing it to and from cassette. The frequency response of tape moving at 3.75 ips is still wider than your ears, it's just not all that flat. You can make up for some of that in mixing. So buying a good cassette four track might be an idea.

I have a 1/4" 15 ips mix-down deck. The effect tape imparts is pretty subtle on mixdown (unless maybe you run it at 7.5 ips or don't clean the heads, or you like to peg the needles). It's more dramatic when you track to it. Probably because there is more dynamic range when it first comes in.

No one thing is going to make the recording. It all has to be good.