Presidential options / Blasphemous rumors

I was never into the McCartney's until about 20 years ago

Oh man from @ 71 to 77 I was a way bigger fan of McCartney and his writing than Lennon...Loved his first solo release McCartney..ya know with the cherries..."Maybe I'm amazed" but another one that still haunts me is Junk...that melody is part of my soul...I always loved John too but felt McCartney had him on the melody stuff...Later on in life as more was revealed and I got to listen to a lot of the studio out takes stuff..I realized I'd grossly underestimated John's gift and magic...Big fan of both those farts...Got to see The Venus and Mars tour concert in LA and that was a trippy night. With regards to Linda musically she was just along for the ride but it was sweet that Paul let her enjoy the magic of being on stage with him. Yoko ...well that's another story...but she played her part.
 
Thanks a lot for making me spend my valuable time listening to this... this... MUSIC!

I'm on my third Tim Akers track on Youtube, one more to go. Too bad they seemed to have shelved the project. They're killer players.

I like their version of Uptown Funk.

:)
 
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Oh man from @ 71 to 77 I was a way bigger fan of McCartney and his writing than Lennon...Loved his first solo release McCartney..ya know with the cherries..."Maybe I'm amazed" but another one that still haunts me is Junk...that melody is part of my soul...I always loved John too but felt McCartney had him on the melody stuff...Later on in life as more was revealed and I got to listen to a lot of the studio out takes stuff..I realized I'd grossly underestimated John's gift and magic...Big fan of both those farts...Got to see The Venus and Mars tour concert in LA and that was a trippy night. With regards to Linda musically she was just along for the ride but it was sweet that Paul let her enjoy the magic of being on stage with him. Yoko ...well that's another story...but she played her part.

Yeah I don't think it was the music as I did like quite a few of Wings hits and also Mcartneys inbetween stuff from Beatles to Wings was great as well. I think for some reason not many people liked Linda and I have no real idea why. I remember the press said as you say.... she was along for the ride. But I think everybody knew that even though she was just an ordinary band member no different than any other.

I also remember Lennon was seen as nothing but a mouth and a pain backside then, and that overshadowed everything he did. He basically disappeared from mid to late 70's and reappeared with a great album only to be struck down a few months later. I think if it wasn't for his Xmas releases he would have been a distant memory in the late 70's.

Of course with time all that stuff fades and when those who remember because they were around at the time are gone, then the version that goes down in history is the one written by someone who got his info from the internet. I doubt it will be anywhere near the truth.
 
Was always a huge Beatles fan...still am. Over the years...and after becoming a musician / songwriter / producer / wiser man (in theory at least)...it seems to me that neither Paul or John was a better composer without the other. John gave some edge to Pauls' overly mellow tendencies and Paul rounded off some of the sharp edges that Johns' writing contained. That's not to say that some of their solo work wasn't special...but to me anyway...it never reached the best of the duo. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Was always a huge Beatles fan...still am. Over the years...and after becoming a musician / songwriter / producer / wiser man (in theory at least)...it seems to me that neither Paul or John was a better composer without the other. John gave some edge to Pauls' overly mellow tendencies and Paul rounded off some of the sharp edges that Johns' writing contained. That's not to say that some of their solo work wasn't special...but to me anyway...it never reached the best of the duo. Just my 2 cents worth.

My 2 cents worth is that John's music was deep and from within. Paul's was more commercial. Made to be a hit if possible. Most of it that I heard anyway.
 
John's music was deep and from within. Paul's was more commercial. Made to be a hit if possible.

I agree pretty much with that analysis... Once they were able to break out of "Being Beatles" and just be who they really were surely Paul was much more driven to write commercially viable tunes. Whereas John was more about using his fame to make the world a better place...definitely both wrote from the heart and both still wrote love songs. The volume of Pauls work definitely is lean on changing the world and John's is heavy on that type of music. Both really cool cats, great songwriters and that they magically got to be in a band and hone their crafts together as kids and young men provided the world with damn fun, damn fine rock n roll. Not to minimize the effect George and Ringo had on the process...It appears Ringo was the least influential and it has been said most of the cool drum parts were Pauls ideas...who knows? Only those 4 really know the truth..Really love some of the incredibly tasty drum parts of many of the Beatles songs.
 
did you see the documentary: "Searching for Sugar Man" ?

A wonderful story and I think if not everyone, almost everyone, will appreciate this move.
I remember watching this documentary some years ago. One of the guys that first spoke to me about digital recording back in 2003 told me about it and I watched it. I'd never heard of the guy and to be honest, I wasn't particularly interested but I thought I'd watch it anyway. It was actually quite interesting. The two things that made me raise an eyebrow were the rumours that surrounded him and his supposed demise, the setting himself alight bit. It was a reminder that worldwide rumours aren't only the preserve of the internet age {eg, 'Paul is dead'}. The other thing was how his stuff came to be popular in South Africa. It wasn't so much the fact that young White South Africans loved his stuff, more that by the time his stuff came to be known, there was a groundswell of young White South Africans that were trying to engage with the wider world and looking outside their own climes which could only spell danger for a shit headed system like Apartheid.
 
neither Paul or John was a better composer without the other
This is an interesting paradox because it's as true as it isn't. Because while as Beatles they wrote a lot together they also throughout the Beatles wrote apart a lot as well. There are Paul songs that John had no part in and John songs that Paul had no part in.
I think of it more from the view that as composers in the 60s, both needed the Beatles in order for their compositions to work, whether together or apart.
John gave some edge to Pauls' overly mellow tendencies and Paul rounded off some of the sharp edges that Johns' writing contained
Again, this is very much a paradox as it is definitely true....yet in so many instances, not true. Paul had some sharp edges { the orchestra in "A day in the life", the backwards parts in "Tomorrow never knows", the madness of "Helter skelter", the savage solos on "Taxman" and "Good morning, good morning" for example} and John showed some truly mellow tenderness {"If I fell", "I'll be back", "Yes it is", "Julia", "Good night"}. I think the truth is that they gave much to one another and liberally wolfed from each other and drank from the same well.
That's not to say that some of their solo work wasn't special...but it never reached the best of the duo
Funnily enough, that's how I feel about John's solo stuff. For me, it's really 'meh' and he never got close to his writing as a Beatle although he most definitely disagreed with that. Paul wasn't much better but he did write a few songs that rival the upper echelon of his Beatle work.
But then, I think "Silly love songs", "Jet" and "Helen Wheels" are great songs so what do I know ? :confused:
 
I think for some reason not many people liked Linda and I have no real idea why
For a long time there was this "Yoko broke up the Beatles" hysteria but the reality is that it was Linda that suffered that more.....but in a curious way.
Paul was identified as the Beatle that broke up the band {even though John had left 7 months before Paul's "announcement"} and was taking the other 3 to court and as this played out in the press, it was clear that John, George and Ringo were on one side and Paul was on the other. And as Linda was Paul's wife and then, horror of horrors she actually started playing in his band and could barely play the keyboards or sing, the righteous elements of the press and fandom conflated all these aspects and Linda basically got it in the neck {interestingly, John recognized this and spoke about it just before he died}. The girl fans were pissed that their Pauly was spoken for, the press and fandom were pissed that there was no more Beatles but there was Linda in Paul's emotional space once reserved for the Beatles whom they considered fair game for their pre~internet style h8termania.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword for Hell hath no fury than female fans who think they've been scorned coming together with a media obliged to think again !
When John sang "Come together" I don't think he quite had this in mind !!

My 2 cents worth is that John's music was deep and from within. Paul's was more commercial. Made to be a hit if possible
I think both their music fell into both categories. Paul was throwing in drug references as early as "She's a woman" in '64 and John spent his entire Beatle career fighting for the A sides. In fact, it is rather telling that in his first major interview after the break up, he speaks of being tired of fighting for A sides, even citing "I am the walrus" as an example of a song that should have been an A side instead of being the B side to "Hello, goodbye." John only went through a short period of non-commerciality, '68~'70. And although he got "Revolution 9" on the White album, he couldn't get "What's the new Mary Jane ?" onto a Beatle album, "You know my name" only made it as B side after he'd left the band and his avant-garde stuff didn't come out as the Beatles and sold so few copies that Cool cat is having trouble flogging them 50 years later {:cool:} and after "John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band" he came to the realization that commerciality wasn't a dirty word, that most people, even if they love off the wall stuff don't just want Yoko wailing, dying babies heartbeats and feedback guitars with backward tapes {stuff he only listened to for a short while} but some semblance of a song and by "Imagine" concluded that chocolate coating {ie, commercial appeal} made for better digestible songs and he went back to writing songs.
I've long felt that John talked a good game.
 
Not to minimize the effect George and Ringo had on the process
This is a big one. A huge one, in fact. It was generally thought that they were just lesser vassals that happened to chance on a good thing and in his Playboy interview of 1980 just before he died, John really gave legs to that view when he said that he and Paul could have created the same thing without George and Ringo but he didn't think it could have happened without him and Paul. George Martin also did a lot to foster this view and Geoff Emerick in his autobiography {that he had to ask other engineers about some details as he couldn't remember !} really goes to town on George's inferiority as a player and all but calls him a 3rd class Beatle.
But I think this is a wonderful case of rewriting history or to put it another way, "until the lions have their own storytellers, history will always glorify the hunter....":cursing:
John was kind of contradictory about most things, depending on when he was being spoken to, who he was angry with, which drug had fogged his mind.....sometimes he lets slip the influence George had but he would rarely give him due credit....then in the same interview will credit George for the creation of raga rock.
But a cursory look at the Beatles output and a bit of reading up on the subject can show some of George's influence for those that are interested in seeing what actually may have been what.
For one thing, his entire anti-materialistic view when he started looking into Eastern religions and philosophy slanted virtually the entire Beatle lyrical direction from 1966 through till they broke up. His embracing of Indian instruments and time signatures had a huge influence on the Beatles but before he ever came across anything remotely Indian, he was a major influencer. His adoption of the electric 12 string guitar made the Beatles' 1964 music revolutionary from a musical standpoint. Jim McGuinn showed that Harrison was maybe better appreciated outside his band than in it. But Paul recognized that a song like "And I love her" would not be the same were it not for George's input. It would be just a maudlin saccharin sweet Paulie tune but George's lead guitar line {which he came up with when Paul was showing the band the song} launches the song into a thing of beauty. Same with that descending lead guitar line in "Help !". It's not on the early takes of the song. George came up with that ~ I can't imagine the song without it. He it was that came up with the idea to take "We can work it out" in that waltz time in the middle 8 {which John copies 2 years later in "Mr Kite"}. It was him that brought the two separate songs John had written and was struggling with into one song that became "She said, she said." Or brought the volume tone pedal weepy sound to "Yes it is." It was on his songs that the band experimented with instruments like the electric piano {"You like me too much" ~ consolidating their use of it on "The night before," recorded earlier the same day} or fuzz bass {Think for yourself}. Indeed, they liked the volume tone pedal sound used on his "I need you" so much it was used on "Yes it is." And so on.
And going back to 1963 when journalists were calling Lennon & McCartney the greatest composers since Schubert {as bombastic as this sounds, it was actually a reflection of how rare it was for popsters, let alone British popsters, to be writing their own songs}, Harrison was pitching in with the virtually ignored "Don't bother me," a song that gave the Beatles so many problems in arranging and recording and ended up sounding like nothing they'd attempted before. It sounds to me like it musically challenged John and Paul to up their game into '64. And lyrically, it was a year before John started coming up with that kind of sardonic lyric, let alone the practice of stating one thing that seems acceptable while meaning something else altogether which may take a lot longer to cotton on to.
People rightly praise Paul for cataloguing the band's money woes in '69 with "You never give me your money." But 3 years before that, George was shining that light in "Taxman."
I could go on for a very long time on George Harrison's underrated and overlooked contribution to the Beatles.....but I'd better not ! :D
 
It appears Ringo was the least influential and it has been said most of the cool drum parts were Pauls ideas...who knows?
Ringo was the least influential, partly because he was the drummer, partly because he wasn't really a songwriter and mainly because the Beatles was not his band.

When he joined the other three had been together for around 4 years and had been together as musical mates for even longer than that. Paul and George had been schoolboy mates at the same school talking about guitars before Paul had even met John. George got into the band because of Paul. But the Beatles already had a contract with Parlophone before Ringo joined. The other 3 had been on the same musical trajectory for years, dreaming the same dream in the same place with the intention of making it together. When they were rejected, they were rejected together. When they got STDs, they got them together. When friends and family members died, they were together or in some combination together. They knew each others parents, guardians and households. They were introduced to drugs together. So much existed between them before Ringo joined and he only joined them because they were paying £5 a week more than Kingsize Taylor who wanted him to join his band, the Dominoes.

When I say that Ringo
was the least influential, partly because he was the drummer, partly because he wasn't really a songwriter
that's not a dig or a cuss but a fact. I love Ringo as a drummer, singer, interpreter, personality......but he just wanted to play the drums in the late 50s and early 60s. And as such, was in demand in the summer of '62 because he could play the drums, no other reason. Simple fact was that the Beatles had had trouble with a decent permanent drummer from the moment they had come together as teenagers. That's no offence to Pete Best or Colin Hanton, but all the drummers they ever had were there because they had drum kits rather than because their drumming was what McCartney, Harrison and Lennon actively wanted. They actually used to say, when their drummerless status was commented on, "the rhythm's in the guitars." Ringo was the first drummer that they actually sought out that they got so they weren't looking for someone to contribute musical ideas as such. They had them in abundance.

Now, that is not to say that he was just a 'lovable nose' that sat there and did whatever Paul told him to do. In fact Paul is on record, as was George Martin, commenting on the special feel and timing that Ringo brought to the songs of the Beatles. Martin felt that Ringo seemed to instinctively know what the songs needed. And yes, on occasion, the Beatles gave him direction on how they wanted the drums to go in their song. Which songwriter or arranger doesn't do that ? It's no secret that Paul was the one that suggested the drum patterns to "Ticket to ride" and "Tomorrow never knows." What isn't often commented on is that the drums for the latter {and for that matter, Paul's bass part} were looped continuously throughout the song. They only play one or two measures ! And listening to the only other take of the song on "Anthology 2", the version we know and love was the right way to take the song. The drum pattern on that first take is a pile of fish excrement {in my opinion} ~ indeed the entire take is pretty shitty. Mark Lewisohn's description in "The Beatles' recording sessions" makes it sound like the most wonderful thing any man, God or beast ever came up with.

It really isn't.

Ringo himself in 1967 told Hunter Davies that the others in the band often directed what patterns they wanted him to play and that when people commended him on his great drum parts, in his heart he knew that it was the other Beatles that suggested what he play. He also later said that they would suggest parts that no one person could play and he'd point this out and when they'd say "well, such and such a drummer played this on that record" he'd show them how the part was overdubbed because it wasn't possible to play the part with 4 limbs.

But Ringo Starr was absolutely essential for the music of the Beatles. First of all, regardless of what anyone suggests you play, that drummer still has to play it and bring their unique feel and set of fills {if there are any} to the song. I'm not a drummer. Before recording, I'll play mouth drums or laps to give whoever may be drumming an idea of what I want for that song or a particular part of the song. But I don't play it. They play it. So their contribution is at least as important as mine because no one pays money or spends time with a song just to hear ideas. We want execution. We lionize the 'great' classical composers but say nothing about the instrumentalists that actually give their compositions life. That's one reason why I always get short when people look at a piece of music that's been recorded and they say "anyone could play or sing that." Yes, anyone could play or sing that but it simply would not be the same as the final version that we hear and love. Tribute bands and cover versions do not sound exactly like the original. I remember back in the early 2000s buying albums that were supposed to be original TV theme tunes and when I'd listen to them, straight away I could see these were not the original theme tunes that used to accompany the shows. I wrote to one of the labels once, I was so angry {:laughings:} and I told them, why advertise these pieces as the original themes by the original orchestras when they clearly are not ? I pointed out to them that people weren't stupid ~ that if they'd been watching a show for 5, 10, 20 years, the theme music would be lodged in their psyche as firmly as language and therefore any nuance missing would be picked up on. Sometimes, one doesn't quite know why something doesn't sound right but one knows it doesn't.

It's the same with Ringo's drumming. With the possible exception of Charlie Watts, I've yet to come across a drummer that I think could have drummed for the Beatles. And while I love the Beatle songs Paul {or in one instance, him with George & John} drummed on {all 4 of them !}, there is a Ringo~ness about the vast, vast majority of the Beatles' output when it comes to the drums. Along with Nick Mason and Ginger Baker {not Keith Moon and Mitch Mitchell}, he helped take drumming into psychedelia which, when fused with jazzier drumming, took progressive rock drumming on leaps and bounds.

Two last things about Ringo; when Yoko Ono appeared on the scene and thought the Beatles' rhythms were kind of samey, John was really embarrassed as he wanted the Beatles to be seen as musically vital. And it is noticeable that the drums on his songs were quite complex on the White album, which led on from John getting together with Yoko. John's drum patterns rubbed off on Paul and although Ringo had a lapse of confidence and left the band during the sessions {Back in the USSR}, generally speaking he rose to the challenge and his drumming in the White album songs hits a level that is quite astonishing for Ringo Starr.

The second thing about Ringo and his influence ~ the Beatles didn't even think about replacing him when he left. Unlike when he first joined, they weren't going to be struggling for a drummer. They could have had almost anyone. Unlike when George left and John talked about getting in Eric Clapton, there was no such consideration when Ringo left. And they only recorded 2 songs in his absence, thinking the time could be taken to do other white album stuff while trying to get him to return.

Ringo was the least influential ~ but that's almost moot when one considers the large influence he did have.
 
Once they were able to break out of "Being Beatles" and just be who they really were surely Paul was much more driven to write commercially viable tunes
I think their two personalities came out in their music. Paul tended to be more outward looking, didn't want to upset people, wanted people to be happy. John was more introspective, which was magnified by his embracing of acid. But they overlapped and criss~crossed throughout the Beatles' tenure.
Paul was the tougher, more realistic of the two back then though. He was also way more into the avant-garde and was the one who sought ways to bring that revolutionary spirit into the Beatles' music but in a way that everybody could absorb and possibly enjoy. Unlike John who just wanted to bludgeon everyone over the head with it. And whose approach worked ? Few people genuinely like "Revolution 9" but Paul's avant-garde touches to the Beatles' music were far more challenging than John's yet they came in the guise of "Eleanor Rigby," "For no one," "Tomorrow never knows," "Sergeant Pepper," {the album concept}, "Magical mystery tour" {the film concept}, "A day in the life," "Penny Lane." While "Magical mystery tour" is a terrible film and the band's first critical failure, generally, Paul's avant-garde leanings were intended for everyone to benefit and he had a smart melodic gift.
But John had a different melodic gift. He had this fantastic way of submerging the melody and musical harmony together that worked in such a way that one rarely thinks of John songs as not having a memorable melody if the music is taken away. Because the music is as much a part of his Beatle songs as any isolated melody. Again, that's why it's so hard if not impossible to say who brought what exactly to the Beatles because the three songwriting Beatles were all influenced by the same things {eg, rock'n'roll, Hendrix, George Martin, drugs} but to different degrees yet they also went in their own specific directions. And as an added complication, influenced each other. When Paul started using classical instruments and scores, John followed suit then George. When Paul started using jazz horns John did too, then George. When George started learning Indian music and instruments, they turned up in more of John's songs than George's {Norwegian Wood, Tomorrow never knows, Strawberry Fields forever, Lucy in the sky with diamonds, Across the universe} and in a Lennon/McCartney collaboration {Getting Better}. When John and George started getting introspective about their respective relationships to Cynthia and Pattie, Paul followed with "You won't see me" and "I'm looking through you" about Jane. When John started getting guitar heavy, Paul did likewise. When John started to write about his youth and Liverpool {"I call your name", "In my life", "She said she said", "Strawberry Fields forever"} Paul followed {"Penny Lane", "Getting better"}.
But all of their songs were singable and therefore commercial. Even the Stones, the Who and the Kinks, seizing the Beatles' example, were commercial.
 
John was more about using his fame to make the world a better place
I suppose I'm rather cynical on that wise; I look at not what a famous person says through their celebrity but rather, how they live in the real nitty-gritty and minutiae of life. In other words, to what extent do they walk their talk. When he was banging on about peace, John didn't walk his talk. He talked a good game but he didn't play one.
The volume of Pauls work definitely is lean on changing the world and John's is heavy on that type of music
Paul could write "world" changing songs with the best of them ~ just not as many as John. But I look at some of Paul's songs like "Blackbird" and "Give Ireland back to the Irish" and in some ways they represent the worst of unrealistic pop star sloganeering {much as I love "Blackbird"}. I've felt for a long time that it is easy to tell a whole people or a population to "get their freedom" without thinking through what that actually means in real everyday life. It means people suffer, it means people may die. Maybe it's a good thing Paul didn't write too many of those kinds of songs from the comfort of St John's Wood or his remote Scottish farm ! :drunk:
He was much stronger with songs that alluded to personal change rather than changes of the masses.
Much of John's sentiments stemmed from guilt. Guilt that he had so much money. And couldn't relate to ordinary people. Couldn't relate to his first son.
 
Pop stars and celebs get asked questions on things which may be political. They give an answer and it gets reported. So they are seen as being 'that way'. John Lennon never ever shut up about his views. Paul and the others were not the same.

Paul went to live the 'good life' as hippies did then and live in a falling down remote farm where he grew and reared his own food and did the place up. John was going to do similar and purchased a small island off the west of Ireland. But instead went to America and did his political stuff which actually changed nothing. It may have highlighted the goings on then of a country he went to live in. But in reality his growing his hair and lying in bed stunts achieved nothing. Maybe he realised this after a few years.

Paul just reared his kids in a great way and went off and did his own music which was a huge commercial success. He even conquered America again with a new band and completely different type of music. I call that success.

John basically disappeared for over 5 years.

Regards writing a song on the complicated goings on in Ireland that just simplified a minefield which had exploded. There were many who did same. They changed nothing either.

Perhaps good advice to pop stars and celebs is just to make music and keep out and refuse to answers questions topical issues?
 
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