My Corona

[miroslav]

...had we not gone to the extreme lengths we have gone to curtail it...

We didn't use ANY "extreme lengths".

The numbers on the flu stuff are facts and so are the current numbers on COVID-19...there is no need to make assumptions about them or do averages.
Also, if you are going to do averaging and assumptions...remove the flu vaccine from the equation, and then the flu would be a much great overall health problem than it's been year after year...and it would pale the effects of COVID-19.

While I agree that there are aspects of common flu and COVID-19 that differ...I just don't get why so many people are trying to sweep the health effects of the common flu under the rug, and minimize its ability to kill and hospitalize in large total numbers, compared to what COVID-19 has done to this point, and to make COVID-19 appear that much worse.

Anyway...let's see what the next week or so brings...I think we should see a more definitive outlook at that point, and which way the numbers are going.

 

[TAE]

We didn't use ANY "extreme lengths".

OK I didn't mean concentration camps Those that did nothing, shrugged it off have already paid the price. If you don't see what we have done as a nation, what China did as a nation as extreme measures so be it. Just saying that in the history of mankind countries have never had to use the "mediocre measure" we have all had to implement because of a virus. Never.

The numbers on the flu stuff are facts and so are the current numbers on COVID-19...there is no need to make assumptions about them or do averages.
Also, if you are going to do averaging and assumptions...remove the flu vaccine from the equation, and then the flu would be a much great overall health problem than it's been year after year...and it would pale the effects of COVID-19.

Well the fact is as of today there is no vaccine for the virus. You're argument is that more people die from the flu each year than the minuscule amount that die from Covid-19. I have heard that defense as an excuse why we should not have to do any of the "mediocre efforts" that have been implemented like stay at home, social distancing, shut down all non essential business for a month or so, wear a mask dumbass...that's all just silly talk...and to those that I have heard say that... I've just shaken my head and said to myself (and to no one else in particular.)...You just don't know what you don't know....
China was our heads up as to watch out this is not your normal flu and this is what we did to control it's spread, Italy is a poster child for showing the world what lack of immediate and serious action results. Most of the rest of us are somewhere in the middle and our statistics correspond equally with the amount of actions / measures we each took.

While I agree that there are aspects of common flu and COVID-19 that differ

Ya think? like comparing a a 22 pistol to an AK47 ... aspects that differ? 50+ times more deadly, much more painful and a much worse torturous death.

...I just don't get why so many people are trying to sweep the health effects of the common flu under the rug, and minimize its ability to kill and hospitalize in large total numbers, compared to what COVID-19 has done to this point, and to make COVID-19 appear that much worse.

No one is trying to sweep the flu stats under the carpet ...They are there for all to see. I've already shared my perspective and conclusion that the two virus's are more than just a smidge different in both severity and in their deadliness. IMO and to compare them, to use the flu as an excuse for NOT TAKING THIS VIRUS MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY is dangerous and foolish. Not all people, most people, don't do their due diligence so when someone on FB says such stuff the sheeple eat it up and take direction as such...Literally changing the course of not only what the person spouting it says but the ignorant innocents that buy into such talk. As someone else mentioned here we could also compare car accidents and wars and cancer. All irrelevant.... this is not the flu and should not, could not be treated as such or we would have paid a much more serious price than we are already going to pay.

I do agree with you on one point and that is that the powers that be have not been honest with the masses..The WHO and CDC saying mask are not needed for those that don't have it was a foolish choice that someone up there in the cogs of power made to lie "shade the truth" to the world so that there would not be hysteria or a shortage of mask to the health care people. IMO it should have been handled much differently as I have already shared. The percentages of 20,30, 40, 50% of our population getting the virus are irresponsible and totally unsupportable yet there the talking heads are saying such. It sound insidious but when speaking of politics should we be surprised. One theory is these crazy high statistics can be used later while campaigning as evidence that because of their extreme efforts and leadership abilities they were able to take a deadly virus that could have infected 50% of the population and kept it to under 1%...magical

 

[CoolCat]

Around here.....the Grocery store showed most had gloves on and masks, though not the 95Mask, only the normal type.
People here at work, those still allowed to do research, are all wearing gloves and masks.
The drive thrus and take out food still open, actually many shops are still open, and the gas stations and banks ...hmm? seems basically everyone is open except dining in, and bars...and maybe shops I dont go to anyway.

There is an article in Yahoo saying masks and gloves are all stupid and explain that nothing good comes from wearing them.

Sweden is using interesting approach, where they are isolating those at Highest risk, allowing the general pop to use common sense and a relaxed approach, and not issuing the lockdowns and leaving restaurants and bars open. (for now?)
As I understand it they are taking on a HERD IMMUNITY approach, allowing the virus to flow through the general pop.
Recent news says they expect death of thousands still though.

Ill take a Brannvin on the rocks, thanks Svin!

 

[TAE]

Oh what a month can bring.....

 

[miroslav]

... in the history of mankind countries have never had to use the "mediocre measure" we have all had to implement because of a virus. Never.

Well...I don't think mankind understood much about germs for most of its "history"...but you can see pictures of the Spanish Flu epidemic with people wearing masks and taking precautions...but no, they weren't told to all stay at home.

You just don't know what you don't know...

And so the best reaction is fear and panic...and the attitude that even if it has no significant effect, let's just do it anyway if it makes us feel safer.

Again...look at Sweden...they have a higher mortality rate, but overall, there is almost no significant spread going on...and they didn't do the stay at home stuff.
I wish someone would explain that.

Keep in mind that if you have only one infected/sick person who then dies...the mortality rate would be 100%...so mortality rate isn't really of much value, IMO.
However...total spread and total death rate are....which is why I keep going back to the common flu, which hospitalizes significantly more people every year than we have had even up to this point with COVID-19...and it kills more people every year than what we have with COVID-19.
Now I'm sure may will say that if we didn't stay at home, COVID-19 would have been much worse...but c'mon, look at the NE...look at my state of NY...the spread has exploded even though we've been doing the stay at home stuff going on 3 weeks now. How's that been working out...?

Then again...look at Sweden...the spread is basically a minor crawl, and they've carried on normally, with almost no restrictions.

So...the NY plan not working too well...the Sweden plan, working very well.
Those are the current facts...but if you just want to imagine "what if"...I don't see any point in doing that.

At any rate...I'm not sure what point you're debating...?...that we should do what...?
We are already living with the stay at home orders...so are you talking about going to 100% quarantine for everyone, including the "essential" people...?
I'm just not seeing that it's helped much with the NE numbers....probably because the virus was well spread to begin with.

 

[miroslav]

Sweden is using interesting approach, where they are isolating those at Highest risk, allowing the general pop to use common sense and a relaxed approach, and not issuing the lockdowns and leaving restaurants and bars open. (for now?)
As I understand it they are taking on a HERD IMMUNITY approach, allowing the virus to flow through the general pop.
Recent news says they expect death of thousands still though.

My point exactly...though I'm not sure where you saw that they are expecting death of thousands...?
Their spread is almost non-existent compared to the USA over the last few weeks...and their death toll has gone up only about 100 or so in that time.
Their mortality rate is high, but it appears that the smaller number of infected are the higher risk people, and so the mortality is higher.

Maybe things take dramatic turns in the next few weeks...but I don't see the Swedish approach as some kind of fluke. It's working better than what we've had here on the east coast.

 

[miroslav]

Here we go...FINALLY people are starting to question the "stay at home" approach VS what Sweden has done, with very good success so far.

Has Sweden Found the Right Solution to the Coronavirus?

This is, in fact, the first time we have quarantined healthy people rather than quarantining the sick and vulnerable. As Fredrik Erixon, the director of the European Centre for International Political Economy in Brussels, wrote in The Spectator (U.K.) last week: “The theory of lockdown, after all, is pretty niche, deeply illiberal — and, until now, untested. It’s not Sweden that’s conducting a mass experiment. It’s everyone else.”

 

[gecko zzed]

ON the other hand, there are many concerns about Sweden's approach, see here, for example:

NoCookies | The Australian

Note that Sweden's infection rate is 763 per 1m, about the same as Iran's.

Australia and New Zealand are hovering around 230 to 240.

UK is at 814, while USA is 1190

 

[miroslav]

ON the other hand, there are many concerns about Sweden's approach, see here, for example:

NoCookies | The Australian

Note that Sweden's infection rate is 763 per 1m, about the same as Iran's.

Australia and New Zealand are hovering around 230 to 240.

UK is at 814, while USA is 1190

Sorry...can't access that article...it requires a subscription and login.

Anyway...there is no argument that Sweden's mortality rates and infection rates rival that of some other countries...I think they expected that to happen...
...what's key is that unlike those other countries that are "shut down"...Sweden continues to work pretty much normally.

So they may end up with similar numbers as some other countries AFA the virus goes...but they won't add to them a completely destroyed economy and permanent lifestyle change...like we're seeing in many parts of the world, and we're hearing all the talk that from now on life will be much different.

We'll see how it plays out over the next few months...but I think the potential death of the economy and the fallout from reactions to the virus, will need to be looked at with as much scrutiny as the virus and its health effects.
At this point, we pretty much saddled the pony, and have to ride it...everyone has placed their bets about what's the best way to deal with this, and some are even doubling-down, and extending the shutdown. Our federal government is already looking to add "phase 4" I believe, which is more money getting pumped into the small biz sector to meet payrolls for everyone sitting at home...and that's just after 3 weeks....so imagine in another 3 weeks or couple of months.

 

[TAE]

At any rate...I'm not sure what point you're debating.

Not debating with you Miro just trying to splain to you that comparing Covid-19 to the flu is IMO lame and dangerous...

That we should do what?

Again IMO we are in a monkey see monkey do kind of situation..China has done the best at controlling the spread of the virus, our friends in Italy and now Sweden took the more ...chillax bro... "more people die from the flu man, what's the big deal?...approach and are now paying a sad and deadly price for their kess than swift call to action.

IMO all other countries should be trying to learn and emulate as best we can from China's "extreme measures" . this is how it should be everywhere where it is still spreading at this time...

MANDATORY Mask or at minimum something cloth over your face when in public
Temperatures should be monitored at all public stores and buildings.....Absolutely all food prep people through out the day temperatures must be monitored and they must wear n95 mask at all times while preparing or being around food that is being prepared..
The Social distancing thing
All non essential business closed until we have it "under control"
We may have to go to further harsher methods if it doesn't start heading downward but hopefully we can get a handle on this before that is necessary.

With regards to the Swedish flag you have started waving...time will tell...but sadly I'm pretty certain it isn't going to be pretty.

In the mean time in Sweden..."They are leading us into a catastrophe" says one hysterical Swedish virus immunology professor...pffft!
And 2,000 doctors, scientists, professors including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, Prof Carl-Henrik Heldin seem to concur to some degree...hmmm

Below is pasted from THIS article

The precautions that Swedes have been advised to adopt – no gatherings of more than 50 people (revised down from 500 last Friday), avoid social contact if over 70 or ill, try to work from home, table service only in bars and restaurants – seem to have allayed public fears that the shocking images from hospitals in Italy and Spain could be repeated here.

The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.

Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, Prof Carl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”

 

[RFR]

They are leading us to catastrophe.

Yes they are.
But it’s going to be a much bigger one. Broken lives, wiped out livelihoods, wiped out savings, freedoms and liberties gone, more govt control etc.
Government is like a pro football team playing against kindergarten kids. They keep on picking up yards. The kids keep on losing ground. What they gain is never given back.

Federal income tax..... temporary to fight the war. Still here!
Patriot act....temporary to fight terrorism. Still here!!

Old Benjamin said; “those who give up liberty for security deserve neither”

And it seems the sheep are begging the government “please do whatever you have to, to keep us safe.”

People are applauding communist China’s draconian response in effectively combating the pandemic!

This whole thing to me is just appalling.

 

[miroslav]

Not debating with you Miro just trying to splain to you that comparing Covid-19 to the flu is IMO lame and dangerous...

What's lame is the refusal for people to admit that we have overreacted...and what is dangerous is what we are giving away, possibly for good, because of it.

Sweden took the more ...chillax bro... "more people die from the flu man, what's the big deal?...approach and are now paying a sad and deadly price for their kess than swift call to action.

I have no idea how you came to these conclusions...it all sounds just like a lot more fear driven worry...but if you read the article I linked to a few posts back...it's quite the opposite. Sweden seems to be taking it in stride...minimal spread, life goes on normal for the rest...the way it should have been.

There's a Mark Twain saying that holds very true in this situation...paraphrasing here:
"You can fool people easier than you can convince them that they have been fooled."

Yes, there is a virus, it's no lie.
However, people have accepted whatever the establishment has told them about the virus at face value, simply because of fear....that's the "fooling" part.

The "deadly price" you're talking about is already being paid for by all of us in the USA with this shutdown approach which has been of little value when you see how much the virus has spread in spite of the shutdown, and mostly in those areas where the stay at home has been in place going on 3 weeks now...
...and we have yet to pay the MUCH bigger price, which will become very unpleasantly evident in the months that follow.

Anyway...how about we wait and see what happens a bit further down the road...and we can compare notes then.
You're doing a good deal of "what if" and maybe I'm wrong about Sweden, and suddenly their world goes dramatically worse than ours in the USA...though it doesn't look like it will so far.

 

[miroslav]

Old Benjamin said; “those who give up liberty for security deserve neither”

And it seems the sheep are begging the government “please do whatever you have to, to keep us safe.”

People are applauding communist China’s draconian response in effectively combating the pandemic!

This whole thing to me is just appalling.

Yeah...I keep seeing that in social media...people actually asking for the government to basically take away rights that were fought for many times in the past...
...because they think it will make them safer, and that the government will use those rights it takes away only to protect us, and for no other purpose.



There's that other saying...not sure who said it first:

"Power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

 

[gecko zzed]

The country to emulate would be South Korea. They appear to have it well under control now.

 

[RFR]

The constitution, which every elected official , the military, the police, etc have SWORN to uphold, is in the trash.

Supposedly this document is the supreme law of the land. It lays out the powers that the govt has and what it doesn’t have

Yet every time there is an event, imagined, real, or created, we go into some kind of fear and people are clamoring “you must do something!”

A little bit gets chipped sway “for our safety”.
No one notices. Then a bit more, then a bit more. Then fools beg for it

We are heading right back into a feudal society , with the “royals” (now called the elite) ruling over us serfs.

Call me paranoid? The evidence of this transition is all around should one care to look.
Just look at the disappearing middle class and the wealth increases of the “elite”.

Anyway, I’ve made my point plenty. I just hope that this has a good outcome for us (ordinary people).

To all, stay safe, stay healthy, and be productive through these times.

 

[miroslav]

Austria and Denmark are planning to lift the lockdown....and the UK is looking at some sort of staggered relaxation by "releasing" people under 30...like WTF, is everyone in jail or something?
What's wrong with letting everyone out who is healthy and willing...regardless of age...???
Boy...it's like the government really wants to take us into Big Brother territory with this shit. They want to decide who gets to come out and who is at "risk". Talk about population control nonsense.

Austria and Denmark are planning to lift their coronavirus lockdowns.

Releasing young people could be best way out of lockdown, experts suggest

I know some of us here may be raising the red flags too quickly for the rest of you...but we really need to pay attention to the fallout from the virus, and I don't mean WRT health, I mean all the other stuff that will occur on the coattails of the virus.
It's kinda like a typical bill in Congress...where they try to piggyback all kinds of crap that doesn't have anything to actually do with the heart of the bill.

So we should at least keep our eyes and ears open...because this virus stuff already shows how easily and quickly a few "experts" and politicians can take full control of our lives...especially when there is a lot of fear and panic in the air.

 

[witzendoz]

This page is a live update of the situation, very good information.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,433,012 Cases and 82,136 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

 

[gecko zzed]

Austria looks to have its situation under control:

Austria Coronavirus: 12,738 Cases and 273 Deaths - Worldometer

Denmark's position is not as secure as Austria:

Denmark Coronavirus: 5,386 Cases and 203 Deaths - Worldometer

 

[CoolCat]

We were just told, in Texas, the shutdown will be through May with optimistic for June week 1 or 2.
Luckily Im full pay for now, unlike the 3 to 20 million who might be in duress. Will business's crash or will it be a very bad year is all?

Really interesting article on the origin of this Wuhan Virus. Claiming it was most likely the Institutes in Wuhan that released the virus, most likely while studying bats that carry a abundance of bad virus's... The previous SARS was also China- research that was given the award of negligence of releasing this crap on society in 2004 also, and as I understand it, this 19-Wuhan Institute Bat-Disease researchers most likely were patient Zero.

Coronavirus & China: Origin in Wuhan Lab Unproven, But Denials Unconvincing | National Review

 

[TAE]

I love old Benjamin Franklin ( according to Family tree DNA I'm genetically related) and his wise words have led me through life...He'd not of liked where we have ended up...But as Peter Fonda said in the 70's you think you have rights? you think you have freedom? You think you have the right to own property? Just don't pay the taxes on that property and see who owns it..

You guys gotta realize this is not propaganda...this is Pearl Harbor...this is a nuclear attack on the world..I'm not being hysterical...this isn't just another fricking flu..

I'm done trying to explain otherwise so here's what I'm leaving this thread with ....

The guy who owns Alibaba has funded a Global Covid-19 knowledge sharing site it's called Global Medixchange and here's a link to a PDF of everything the hospital in China with best success rates for treating Covid-19 have compiled from that same site as of today...If you take the time to go through it you will walk away with a much clearer understanding of what we are dealing with and FWIW it ain't the fucking flu!

This global site is available in all languages as is the PDF's IF you are in the health care world or know people who are be sure to read and or pass on this life saving important information...

Peace out and may all of you and your loved ones dodge the bullet on this damn virus!