Here's something I can agree with Biden about.

I personally don’t trust the CDC. They’re a for profit organization and hold many vaccine patents. They’re in it for the money.

Forgive me if I find your assertion unconvincing. According to the sources I've looked at, they're a federal agency. They're funded by taxes and philanthropy through the nonprofit CDC Foundation.

"Because CDC is a federal agency, all scientific findings resulting from CDC research are available to the public and open to the broader scientific community for review."

CDC Foundation | About | CDC
 
Forgive me if I find your assertion unconvincing. According to the sources I've looked at, they're a federal agency. They're funded by taxes and philanthropy through the nonprofit CDC Foundation.

"Because CDC is a federal agency, all scientific findings resulting from CDC research are available to the public and open to the broader scientific community for review."

CDC Foundation | About | CDC
Dude I’m trying to exit. You want to argue. :)

They’re a public/ private partnership like so many ‘agencies’. And despite what they’d let you believe, they’re making money. Lots of it.

The graft and $ to be made in any area of government at the upper levels is huge.


FDR famously said, “Any politician who leaves office a millionaire is a crook.”
Nowadays it seems like they make their first million in the first year. :)

Anyway, I’m just saying my piece. I don’t expect to convince you or change your mind.

So....... peace out. (again)
 
I don't think politics prevents friendships. I'd have a beer with anyone here. I'd collaborate with anyone here. The guy I collaborated with on a few tunes recently (Jimistone) is the opposite of me politically. We spent years disagreeing before ever working on something together. Like, 13 years actually. We've had a lot of fun working together and will probably do more. I consider him a friend.

As for the discussions we've been having in this forum as of late - I just don't see how any of this is personal. Disagreement is good fun. Agreeing all the time is boring.

As for the history of HR, maybe the Cave was closed before you registered. We used to have a wild time in there. There was practically zero moderation. It was hilarious. A virtual room full of musicians of all stripes. Old people, young people, gay, straight, trans. Rich, poor, city, rural, furriners. Hippies, metal heads, punk rockers, etc. It was boob gifs, music, politics, life, and chaos. Completely uncensored. People made friends in there - got to actually know each other. Many of those relationships have spanned the better part of two decades. It was by far the most popular forum on HR, and the site had a ton more traffic back then.

I never said politics prevented friendships. My statement was that HOW we treat each other...whatever the differences...is what prevents friendships and causes problems. Hatred and ridicule are not conducive to any friendship.
 
Forgive me if I find your assertion unconvincing. According to the sources I've looked at, they're a federal agency. They're funded by taxes and philanthropy through the nonprofit CDC Foundation.

"Because CDC is a federal agency, all scientific findings resulting from CDC research are available to the public and open to the broader scientific community for review."

CDC Foundation | About | CDC

Yes and that inept and bumbling federal agency in the beginning of this disaster when we already knew what China was doing to stop the spread ( Whole city quarantining where the virus originated, mandatory mask when in public nationwide, and mandatory temperatures being taken at all public places nationwide all executed in a couple of weeks) told us only health care workers and people with the virus need to wear mask...IF you didn't fit those two criteria you didn't need to wear mask. I am not saying their numbers are accurate or inaccurate...they are probably pretty close but they surely can not be trusted. The no mask thing was an idiotic knee jerk reaction and response to make sure there was not a shortage of mask for the frontline health workers. They didn't want what happened with toilet paper to happen with mask so they flat out lied to us and told us they weren't necessary. I'm not a doctor or brilliant scientist but just knowing the simple facts I sure as hell knew they were full of shit when they put that notice out and said so here in the my Corona thread.

And because of that idiotic info, I got total shit storm push back from Miro on the mask thing because the CDC says so... Can't trust em I tell ya...
 
Dude asked you where you got your information. You said:

RFR said:
CDC and Debra Birx herself...
Birx was the CDC director for 9 years, and now works for the Government and closely with the CDC.

Then I show you the CDC numbers and you say this:

I personally don’t trust the CDC.

So when you find out the official CDC numbers aren't what you want them to be, you say you don't trust them. I gotta say it comes across like you are choosing to believe whatever is good for Trump, and you don't particularly care about credible sourcing, validating data, doing good science, etc.
 
We would not be in this situation had we just got tough on this from the get go...the patty cake patty cake soft ass measures have availed us the situation we are currently in... We blew it bad...and Trump definitely played a big role in the lax attitude and failure therein..."We have it under control, we have the greatest medical advisors in the world" early on. I'm not blaming it on Trump alone it was a collective fail but a more practical, unifying charismatic leader could have made a world of difference in how this went down and how we went about squashing it early on...In the countries that did what China did...There are no shut downs, people are going about their daily lives just like in the olden days of 2019.


Here's a link
to a site that shows the countries that got it right as opposed to the dumbass ones ( of which the USA gets first place!) ...It's pretty current data early November..

Below is a snapshot from worldometer.com of the stats for yesterday and below it a spread sheet I posted on May 3rd here... To be clear on May 3rd China had it under control pretty well with a total of @ 82,000 cases, as of yesterday they have had a total of 86,361...Oh yeah I know , I know they are lying they can't be trusted.....all the 100's of people I know there are lying to me cause they'll be sent to the disinformation camps if they don't...:laughings:

Look at this number and hopefully you'll get a sick feeling in your gut ......as of yesterday here in the good old "we have it under control" USA we have had a total of 11,695,711 cases and yesterday ...yes... in ONE FREEKING DAY we had 157,261 new cases.. China with 4 times as many people, as of yesterday has had a TOTAL of 86,361 cases...:cursing: If I had a rake! The U.S. had almost double the amount of cases in ONE DAY that China has had over the whole last 11 months.......we should be so proud....

If you can get beyond the blinders of the bias ignorant media.... they kicked the Corona virus's ass and we have lovingly kissed it ...an embarrassing fail of monumental proportions.

I know some of you get pissed off at me for defending China and I do want to be very clear. I am grateful as hell that I live in a country where I can post information on a forum like this and point out my governments flaws without the fear of my door being busted down and me being thrown in a cell and getting my ass beat. If the tables were turned and it was the USA that had handled it right and someone in China posted the same shit they absolutely could be getting themselves in some seriously hot water.

There is a lot about China I admire and a lot of things I am not a fan of but because people have to follow the rules a lot more closely there they were able to say stay the fuck in your house and people did it.

In the beginning had we taken this a lot more seriously and understood the gravity of not taking strong measures to stop the spread...things should have been done a lot more strictly and it should have been a nationally united battle. This is just Monday morning quarterbacking at this juncture but IMO national Marshal law would have been appropriate but the Trump haters would have said here comes Hitler. We all wear mask, temperatures taken at all public places..areas like New York where it went crazy fast get locked down...no one leaves or enters the city. Would have a made a huge difference but here we are now laughably still yapping about herd immunity....lordy.

11-18-2020.JPG

Stats 5-3-20.jpg
 
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In 1918 after millions of other people had died in WW1 besides Americans, a virus came out of the blue for 2 years and 3 winters. It was Spanish flu.

People back then knew how to self isolate. They had been doing it for hundreds of years because it was their only way of not catching a killer disease. In those days most diseases could kill you.

This virus infected approx 500 million and killed 1 in 10 ... approx 50 million.

500 million was 25% of the worlds population. The equivalent today of approx 2 billion. 50 million deaths would be today the equivalent of 200 million.

We have 1.34 million deaths worldwide from covid. Approx .5% of the Spanish flu.

Whose fault was the Spanish flu?.......... Basically nobodies because nobody had a clue what to do. Just as now.

Always blaming our pet hate and pointing fingers solves nothing, will solve nothing, and will cure nothing.

It is obvious that none of us 100 years later had more idea how to stop this virus than they did the Spanish flu.

Point is though by Spanish flu standards it isnt much of a killer is it?
 
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Besides life would be really weird if everyone thought alike.........
I heartily disagree. :laughings:You'd all be much better off :yawn: and probably better people :cool: if you thought :confused: just like me. :p

I'm nearly always in agreement with me. :thumbs up:
Until I change my mind. :eek: :wtf:
Then I get pretty savage :cursing: :spank:and declare me :RTFM: to be incoherent :drunk: {and that's just the polite version !}. :D
 
Are we all in agreement that wearing masks is at least a small effort we should all make for the time being? I don't like wearing a mask, but if it helps save the life of just one person, it's worth the effort.
I'm with you on that. I absolutely hate wearing them and I'm not entirely convinced that they make that great a difference........but I'm not at all convinced that they don't and until the matter is settled one way or the other, I'm not willing to take the chance just to exercise my right to be stubborn and stick it to the Man.
 
I never said politics prevented friendships. My statement was that HOW we treat each other...whatever the differences...is what prevents friendships and causes problems. Hatred and ridicule are not conducive to any friendship.
Wise words.
 
I think the issue with masks is that the CDC probably knew that the supply of surgical style and N95 masks would run out and it wasn't known if homemade cloth masks would be useful. But they changed the advice pretty quick once they had information that cloth masks were at least somewhat effective. The administration has undermined that message all along, still is.

I agree that more aggressive measures early on would have helped. But the CDC's job is to advise. It's up to the executive to make things happen, and in this case the executive tended to dismiss CDC advice. Letting each governor handle it in different ways, which meant a lot of them didn't do much of anything, was a mistake. This needed coordination on a federal level. A fence that's 30% complete is just about as good as no fence at all.
 
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