Electoral College & Trump's 2016

[Snowman999]

It’s certainly fun playing the devil’s advocate.

The question was a thought provoking one. (I hope) And the responses are interesting.

Devil's advocate or SATAN ITSELF?

BTW: Did you ever watch the show LUCIFER? Seriously, one of the best shows for years. It's on Netflix now and the fan base keeps it going.

 

[RFR]

Hmmm, so the devil has his own tv show now?? Is he a politician or banker?$$

 

[Snowman999]

Hmmm, so the devil has his own tv show now?? Is he a politician or banker?$$

Lucifer Morningstar leaves hell with his protective demon Maze and he sets up shop of granting favors as the owner of a hot LA nightclub LUX. He's there for 5 years when a rock star client is murdered. He assists the beautiful detective Chloe Decker in hunting down the killer, and exacts his punishment. He also has a strange attractive to the Detective and they become partners.

Because Lucifer doesn't lie, he's open about who he is, no one believes him. It's a great show. The weakest part is the police work. The writers know nothing about policing, and it shows. But, the relationships, story-lines, and characters are all fabulous. Well worth checking out from the beginning. Seasons 1 - 3 were on Fox and they cancelled it. The fans were so outraged, Netflix picked it up for a single season. But, renewed it for season 5. SUPPOSEDLY this is the final season. But, I think viewership will decide that. It has a devilish fanbase who won't take no for an answer.

 

[RFR]

Well, then I can’t be him. Don’t own a nite club

 

[60's guy]

Haha! Sorry I don’t have one. Not quite smart enough to develop something new and better.

I do however know the current system doesn’t work. For us anyway. For the politicians, bankers and major corporations it’s working just fine.

But let me go into the past for a minute. Back in the day where I grew up, we don’t didn’t have a formal government run fire Dept.

We had a fire station with a couple full time firemen and the building was on a big piece of property. It got rented out as a pumpkin patch, summer fairs, music events, traveling circuses, car shows, bake sales, Xmas tree sales Christmas events, etc.
That empty lot was in use year round and was known as a community gathering place.

The proceeds funded the fire department year round.

As to firefighters, there were plenty of volunteer firemen in the town. When the alarm went off, all over town these guys would put the red light on top of their car and speed off to work.

That system may by modern standards seem ancient. But it worked. There were very little issues with fires and when the need arose they were effectively put out.

Granted, this was a different time and in a smaller town, but the key takeaway from this is that we took care of our own affairs.

People took ownership of their community.

Now we expect the authorities to take care of it.

I believe we could, and would, take care of our own affairs, and a government of sorts would be established, but on a local regional level

Instead of rule from the top down, it would be a local system. Ig

Just like with cell phones where we’ve forgotten numbers and rely on voice dialing,
we’ve forgotten how to take responsibility for our lives, and communities and rely on governments to take care of things.


Anyway just some off the cuff thoughts.

The fire department you describe perfectly describes the fire department in the town that I lived in as a teenager.
The volunteer fire department hosted a yearly carnival.
Hundreds of local people attended, and contributed to the fund raising efforts.
Fast forward to the town in Northern Connecticut that I have lived in for the past 41 years. The volunteer fire department you describe is the perfect description of perhaps hundreds or thousands of volunteer fire departments that still exist.
Every one of those local volunteer fire departments relies on the support it receives.
This year, because of Covid, the volunteer fire department in my town wasn't able to host the annual "Fire Department Fair".
Nonetheless, myself, and many others wrote checks to support the volunteer fire department that we depend on to be there whenever we need them to be there.
I haven't a clue as to what is you are thinking other than when you wrote...

"I believe we could, and would, take care of our own affairs, and a government of sorts would be established, but on a local regional level

Instead of rule from the top down, it would be a local system."

Are you among the "we" who see themselves sitting atop a localized system of government?

Would your "local system" of governance allow free speech?

I'm just asking because I am trying to understand your angst.

 

[RFR]

Are you among the "we" who see themselves sitting atop a localized system of government?

Would your "local system" of governance allow free speech?

I'm just asking because I am trying to understand your angst.

I personally do not want to ‘sit on top’ of anything. ( unless it’s one of those fancy studio mixing chairs)
I have zero personal political aspirations.

I have however, met and spoken with our mayor, play in a band with a city council member, know many of our sheriffs, and follow very closely our county board of supervisors.
meetings.

About the closest I get to being ‘involved’ is I help out in a local community garden.

Our area is very constitutionally oriented despite being surrounded and governed by a very liberal and tyrannical government.

We are well aware of how a centralized government that is completely out of touch can be destructive to our communities.

And as to free speech? Absolutely essential!

As to the fire department story.... I brought that up as an example of how we don’t ‘need government’ to provide something for us.

Whenever someone proposes getting rid of or reducing govt , you’ll get the classic “well who will take care of the roads response”

I’m suggesting that we are capable of providing for ourselves and don’t need some other entity with power over us to do it.

We’re smart we’ll figure it out.

Bedsides, some of the cities with the biggest governments, highest taxes, etc. seem to have some of the shittiest roads.

Every time I go to LA, they’re working on the roads, but the roads are still shitty. They’ll do stupid shit as well. I had a biz right on Highland ave in the center of Hollywood.( A major street.. Pavers tore it up and repaved it even though it was pretty good. Ok, cool. Brand new street.
When they got done, the job foreman said.... “see ya next month”. Huh???? Was my response. He told me the contracts got screwed up, and they had to tear it up again so the city could do new wiring.

So the next month it got tore, up and paved again. Ineptitude at work and no one cared. Eh, the taxpayers are paying for it.

So they ain’t doing so well. Call em out on it, and they’ll cry that they need more money


I think in a more localized government with people involved, crap like that wouldn’t happen. At least I’d hope so.

But, it seems so many people feel they have no power and they opt out, because they’re used to government just running over them and doing what ever they feel like.

There’s that old saying.... can’t fight city hall.

Well, need to throw that stupid idea out. Not only can we fight city hall, but we should and must.

Hope that answers some questions?

 

[60's guy]

I personally do not want to ‘sit on top’ of anything. ( unless it’s one of those fancy studio mixing chairs)
I have zero personal political aspirations.

I have however, met and spoken with our mayor, play in a band with a city council member, know many of our sheriffs, and follow very closely our county board of supervisors.
meetings.

About the closest I get to being ‘involved’ is I help out in a local community garden.

Our area is very constitutionally oriented despite being surrounded and governed by a very liberal and tyrannical government.

We are well aware of how a centralized government that is completely out of touch can be destructive to our communities.

And as to free speech? Absolutely essential!

As to the fire department story.... I brought that up as an example of how we don’t ‘need government’ to provide something for us.

Whenever someone proposes getting rid of or reducing govt , you’ll get the classic “well who will take care of the roads response”

I’m suggesting that we are capable of providing for ourselves and don’t need some other entity with power over us to do it.

We’re smart we’ll figure it out.

Bedsides, some of the cities with the biggest governments, highest taxes, etc. seem to have some of the shittiest roads.

Every time I go to LA, they’re working on the roads, but the roads are still shitty. They’ll do stupid shit as well. I had a biz right on Highland ave in the center of Hollywood.( A major street.. Pavers tore it up and repaved it even though it was pretty good. Ok, cool. Brand new street.
When they got done, the job foreman said.... “see ya next month”. Huh???? Was my response. He told me the contracts got screwed up, and they had to tear it up again so the city could do new wiring.

So the next month it got tore, up and paved again. Ineptitude at work and no one cared. Eh, the taxpayers are paying for it.

So they ain’t doing so well. Call em out on it, and they’ll cry that they need more money


I think in a more localized government with people involved, crap like that wouldn’t happen. At least I’d hope so.

But, it seems so many people feel they have no power and they opt out, because they’re used to government just running over them and doing what ever they feel like.

There’s that old saying.... can’t fight city hall.

Well, need to throw that stupid idea out. Not only can we fight city hall, but we should and must.

Hope that answers some questions?

I trust you understood the feacinous of my post.
The vast majority of people are sheep and too stupid to understand just how vulnerable the U.S is.

 

[RFR]

I trust you understood the feacinous of my post.
The vast majority of people are sheep and too stupid to understand just how vulnerable the U.S is.

Wasn’t 100% sure. Figured I’d elaborate.

Good and needed conversation we’re having though. (At least I hope so)


To elaborate on your point...... the vast majority of Americans are lazy and apathetic stupid sheep. And what I call repeaters. They repeat the media’s, politician’s, and social media’s talking points and think they are informed.

Never observing, never questioning, and never thinking.....just repeating.

 

[60's guy]

Never observing, never questioning, and never thinking.....just repeating.

Indeed! The Roman Empire, as strong as it was for 500 years, fell.

 

[RFR]

We’re on the same path but in warp speed. Gee, where have I heard that? ?

 

[TAE]

Let me pose a question.
Why do we need a government in the first place??????

without organization our world would be chaos..... Like any thing with moving parts there has to be leadership....The Alpha....It is this way in nature and just the way it is. We humans unlike all other living creatures have organized so well that we can interact worldwide and enjoy a lifestyle, a life of comfort that never could have occurred without organization. In organization you have leaders that do their best to keep their position by appeasing the masses yet having the power to enjoy the fruits of being the leader. President, CEO, Indian Chief etc. A bunch of different ways in which the leaders come to power but there will always be someone at the head of the table.

Even the garden of Eden had leadership.....

People by nature are selfish and self seeking... without some guidelines and a system to enforce those guidelines ) "accountability" The masses will live in fear and terror as the strong take from the weak. Right now the craziness that is occurring with all these opportunist that jump on the band wagon of "civil rights" as their banner and then riot and loot are not being held accountable and our liberal media and liberal leaders are making excuses for it...accepting it...no accountability for their evil actions.

There is a lot of whacky stuff going on right now....and I do believe we are in for some major rough times as far as our freedoms are concerned.....It's a big mess and it's getting messier ...We pontificating here today will probably not live to see it....but in the future I suspect we will be a one world government....Surely Nanook as he stood in front of his fire in his cave leading his tribe never dreamed their would be tribes of 1.4 billion people with one leader someday....Like it or not it is not a far reach to accept the reality that someday sooner than we can imagine it must come to that...and the amazing freedoms that we have enjoyed here in the states will only be a memory of a time when things were different and people were uncivilized savages.

 

[RFR]

[MENTION=1094]TAE[/MENTION]

Good lord that was depressing to read first thing in morning. Sounds like you have no fight left in you and have accepted big brother.

Well you won’t have to live in the new world, but your offspring will.

No worries though, social engineering, and education (re-education) will take care of that.

They’ll be happy to live in this new ‘civilized’ no freedom society.

 

[TAE]

[MENTION=1094]TAE[/MENTION]

Good lord that was depressing to read first thing in morning. .

LOL sorry man... Nah I have plenty of "Fight" in me...I just recognize an exercise in futility when I see one. I see a shit storm coming and it is beyond my power to do anything more than shake my head in sadness...Kind of like that Indian crying on TV when we were teens about the environment..

You and I live left in left field California and our right winged votes are wasted. WE can talk and rant on this little forum or a 1000 other forums on the internets and we might change a few minds but the sheeple will follow the sheepherder and his dog spot...( the media) and go whatever way they lead them...

 

[RFR]

Well you do have a point sadly. Orwell wrote 1984 a long time ago, I believe as a warning. Yet no one has taken it seriously enough to halt or crush it’s advance.

 

[TAE]

Well you do have a point sadly. Orwell wrote 1984 a long time ago, I believe as a warning. Yet no one has taken it seriously enough to halt or crush it’s advance.

I graduated high school in 1971 and Orwells book 1984 was part of our English reading curriculum. A few years later I was working for Zenith and ended up in the CRT picture tube warranty processing area. I was privy to a lot of new technology including flat screen TV's in 1974 a good 20 years before the public ever saw them... I wrote in my prognostication notes in 1974 that someday the world would communicate via TV's instead of phones..I assumed wired like telephones but with video....had not an inkling of the internet but was spot on that the world would be interacting via what we called TV's ....now we call them monitors...I knew then that it would make the world a much smaller place and speed up innovation...Little did I know how much and how fast..... How about Dick Tracy and his watch phone...who'da thunk it would really happen...Pretty awesome and pretty scary because things have changed for the better in some ways and reflectively for the worse in many of the ways of the more simple days of our youth.

It's OK to mourn the loss of those times but the freight train is rolling and we can't stop it... we take this life and our roles in it pretty seriously but in the big picture we're just blink in time, a spec of micro dust in this universe within a billion universes a billion times bigger than ours....

It will all work out in the end..If it hasn't worked out...it isn't the end...but in the end...it's the end

In the mean time I'm going to make some groovy good vibrations with the musical tools I am equipped with and put them out there for those that want to feel them and revel in that hopefully enjoyable moment for just a little while...

 

[RFR]

I was in the Air Force in the mid to late 70s .
I was privy to technology that the public wasn’t aware of. Just a guess, but I figure public release is usually about 20 years behind. Who knows what they got cooking now in that we have no concept of.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

...Then I was watching The Five...

Ah. A FOX news watcher. That explains it.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

The 2016 election had Clinton with 3 million more votes. Those votes came from one state California. If you removed the two largest states CA and TX from the vote, there is NO combination where Clinton has more votes than Trump. It's for this reason that the electoral college exists.

Presidential Election Results: Donald J. Trump Wins – Election Results 2016 – The New York Times

So your opinion is that if people live within the same artificial boundary, then their votes should count for less.

Whereas if people live farther apart, their votes should count for more.

I wonder what limits you place on this. Perhaps you'd be willing to compromise that urban folk can count as three fifths of a person.

 

[Snowman999]

So your opinion is that if people live within the same artificial boundary, then their votes should count for less.

Whereas if people live farther apart, their votes should count for more.

I wonder what limits you place on this. Perhaps you'd be willing to compromise that urban folk can count as three fifths of a person.

Clinton got the electoral votes of California. Trump got the electoral votes from the states he won. In the electoral way (you're OBVIOUSLY too intelligent and don't need to watch the video in the original post) EVERY VOTE COUNTS. In the feeble democrat mind, only highly populated cities matter. Trump took 303 electoral votes. Clinton didn't even come close.

But, here's the final outcome. Which you'll ignore, because, well law means nothing to you. This is from NPR and you should be able to understand it:

Fully overhauling the way the president is selected would take a Constitutional amendment, which would require the votes of two-thirds of the U.S. House of Representatives, two-thirds of the Senate, and three-fourths of the states.

Or in other words - the electoral college is HERE TO STAY. As it should, it's genius.

 

[miroslav]

So your opinion is that if people live within the same artificial boundary, then their votes should count for less.

Whereas if people live farther apart, their votes should count for more.

I wonder what limits you place on this. Perhaps you'd be willing to compromise that urban folk can count as three fifths of a person.

Your ignorance or intentional dismissiveness of why the Electoral College system is the more fair system, not for any one majority, but for the entire USA population, no matter if they be in a heavily populated area or some more sparsely populated state...is becoming annoying.

Also...there are no "artificial" boundaries... ...we are not talking about physical geography, but of actual states, that have official boundaries...like it or not.

Let it go...and instead, start working on your empty rebuttals about the latest Biden corruption news that has been breaking today...that the liberally controlled social media outlets immediately attempted to block in order to protect Joe, which basically amounts to election tampering.

Joe is hiding...he has no way to cover-up the lies he was giving about his knowledge of the collusion with him and his son Hunter and the Ukrainians and Burisma...all which is going to blow up in Joe's face right before the election.

Of course, if you only get your news from Twitter...well then you don't know anything about it, since they blocked it.