Leak of Roe v Wade court decision

[RFR]

Animal cells including human undergo similar processes to turn into life forms. For some reason because we ourselves regard ourselves as 'civilized' we apply different rules to our own human cells. Any other cells we couldnt give a shit about. But how does that make us civilized?

So you regard the killing of human cells as 'uncivilized'. Civilized means having as TAE says 'a code of ethics'.

Yet when the human cell 'does have intelligence' and turned into its life form, you think its ok to kill them then. Murder, war, undeclared war, and death penalties.

Being civilized is very confusing.

You trying to put words in my mouth, Ed?

You used the word ‘you’ a few times.

My statement was very specific, and reading other things into it is silly.

I said what I said, and meant what I said.

This thread is about human life, and abortion. I’m not here to debate anything else, nor will I.

 

[Ed Fones]

You trying to put words in my mouth, Ed?

You used the word ‘you’ a few times.

My statement was very specific, and reading other things into it is silly.

I said what I said, and meant what I said.

This thread is about human life, and abortion. I’m not here to debate anything else, nor will I.

Not trying to put words into anybodys mouth or even debate abortion. So I'll go.

 

[RFR]

Not trying to put words into anybodys mouth or even debate abortion. So I'll go.

Not trying to chase you out.

Me, I just made a simple statement.
Not looking to engage, debate or anything like that.
My point was simply that we’re pretty fucked up as a society when killing your offspring is ok, and actually considered to be a right.
Some may agree with that sentiment, some may not. I don’t care.
But while the right still exists, I’m allowed to communicate my POV, as is everyone else.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Congrats to the humans who gave back the rights to the innocent human life forms residing inside the wombs of women that chose to play Russian roulette with a sperm cell and don't want to take responsibility for doing so...Oh yeah but what about that less than 1/10th of 1% of pregnancies that were the result of rape. Horrible and sad...still no right to take the life of the product of that rape. Those little life forms have just as much right as the life form that is the vehicle for bringing them here to earth. The absurdity, the utter ignorance to try and argue when life begins is SO idiotic. DUMBASS 101
When that sperm attaches itself to that egg...in that instant, not 2 weeks, not 6 weeks, not when it comes out of the womb...in that instant the miracle has begun. It is it's own unique and separate entity..not the mom or the dads.... it is it's own unique make up of DNA...IN THAT INSTANT to argue that FACT is mind boggling...Life begins when that sperm attaches...it may make it through the process of pregnancy or not but it is a living entity in that moment and just like the living humans outside of wombs NO ONE has the right to decide whether it lives or dies but nature itself.

Did I mention I am not a fan of Abortion?

Women = “vehicles”

Nice.

 

[RFR]

Women = “vehicles”

Nice.

Birthing person = “vehicles”.

Get with the times, Luddite.

 

[RFR]

All kidding aside, things surrounding this ruling are bullshit.

No matter if it is right or wrong, why now???

Who holding the levers of power, came up with the idea that this would be the ‘perfect’ time to release it.

With everything else non-optimum going on in this world right now, why this ruling?

It makes for a perfect storm to divide us even more.

It is the perfect distraction from food shortages, looming war, inflation, supply chain issues, the fuel crisis, etc.

I smell a rat.

Someone, or ones, are trying to tear us apart even more than we already are.

If I didn’t know better, I’d say it looks like someone is trying to start a civil war.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Being opposed to killing a baby is not unique to those who hold a religious belief.

A typical liberal tactic. There is nothing to be gained from debating/discussing towards an agreement when one side insists on basing the entire premise on a lie in an effort to control the narrative. That and "if you would just agree with me we could all get along" is tiresome.

 

[maxmax77]

I am no fan of the DOC, liberals, nor the neoliberal establishment that has absolutely ransacked this country—and that includes the GOP. I like the people in America, but our government is a complete garbage heap from the state level upward, and the dual party costume show that goes along with it is just tiresome. So let’s leave that dumpster fire alone for a minute.
Restricting a conversation about abortion to one of human life and its sanctity makes dialogue virtually impossible. Aside from the death toll for women that rises when abortion is made illegal, what happens when 10s of thousands of unwanted children, or children that can’t be afforded, are born? They grow up without enough food, or they’re abused, or they’re kicked out of the house or dropped off at foster homes.

So yeah, the question of letting states make abortion illegal or not has to do with more than just “should the federal government be making us kill babies.” How about the other facets of the issue: “should we be increasing crime rates”, “should we be increasing homelessness”, “should we be making more incest babies” (looking at you, Ohio. Sure it’s a small fraction of a percentage but it’s still absolutely abhorrent) or maybe “ should we be creating a generation of unwanted kids who will cost us a shitload of money in taxes later in life for a variety of reasons”.

And then there’s the fact that abortions do not occur in a vacuum. They occur in context, and whether or not people have abortions then goes on to have impacts. Fact: most of the people who have an abortion either already have a child or go on to have one later in life. So, what are the ripple effects of those moms not having abortions?

For example, in the case of a mom who has enough money to feed and clothe one kid but two would make it impossible: if she has the second kid, both of them are screwed. This happens all the time. I mean, in this all-too-real situation, at least the first kid could have had a good life with enough food and a more stable living situation.

Or what about another common situation, where someone does want to have a kid but can’t afford to have one yet? When that mom gets pregnant before she has the resources and she can’t have an abortion, 2 things happen. 1) a kid is born into a world where he can’t be supported. 2) the kid that mom would have had later in life never gets to live. On a practical level, wouldn’t you rather have a kid who has a home, food, and a mom who can support them than you would have a kid and a mom whose lives become absolute garbage?

Abortion is incredibly serious, sad, and there is no solution that doesn’t create suffering. It’s just a question of what kind of suffering you want to create in the world.

 

[WWLaidback]

what happens when 10s of thousands of unwanted children, or children that can’t be afforded, are born?

Ask the same questiuon about 80,000 unaccompanied minors that illegally cross the southern border every year.

The facts about how the U.S. processes unaccompanied migrant children at the border

An overview of the legal authorities and policies that govern the care of unaccompanied kids, as well as the facilities where they're housed while in custody.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[maxmax77]

Ask the same questiuon about 80,000 unaccompanied minors that illegally cross the southern border every year.

The facts about how the U.S. processes unaccompanied migrant children at the border

An overview of the legal authorities and policies that govern the care of unaccompanied kids, as well as the facilities where they're housed while in custody.

www.cbsnews.com

As you should ask it. International migration/immigration policy is a totally different issue as we both know, but it has to do with kids without opportunities so I see the connection. Also, immigration is an issue that typically runs along party lines, but like i said I’m not one to leap to defend that party’s policies either so I’m not particularly interested in going down that side street.

It is definitely an important issue though. I actually do a lot of stuff on international displacement and immigration, so it is something I like to think about. No less in the US.

 

[WWLaidback]

International migration/immigration policy is a totally different issue as we both know

Some of the migrant kids end up in orphanages just like the kids that were born here.
What's the difference between them?
Dam if I can tell.

Ascentria Care Alliance - Unaccompanied Refugee Minors

The Unaccompanied Refugee Minors program (URM) of Ascentria Care Alliance is the only foster care program in New England that exclusively assists refugee and migrating youth.

www.ascentria.org

Open your heart and home.
Become a foster parent to a refugee minor.​

Gee. Can somebody open their heart and adopt one of our own, maybe?

 

[maxmax77]

Some of the migrant kids end up in orphanages just like the kids that were born here.
What's the difference between them?
Dam if I can tell.

Right, I totally agree with you on that. They can and do both end up in orphanages. Just like the newsie kids way back in the 1920s.

I just don’t see how that builds on (or contradicts) what I said about abortion. Are you asking for my personal opinion on southern border policy?

 

[maxmax77]

Ascentria Care Alliance - Unaccompanied Refugee Minors

The Unaccompanied Refugee Minors program (URM) of Ascentria Care Alliance is the only foster care program in New England that exclusively assists refugee and migrating youth.

www.ascentria.org

Open your heart and home.​

Become a foster parent to a refugee minor.​

Gee. Can somebody open their heart and adopt one of our own, maybe?

I mean, yeah. If you can propose a way to systematically employ open-heartedness to house all of the kids who will be born instead of being aborted, be my guest. I’m being a little sarcastic, but really if that could happen it would be a great thing.

But we don’t know that we could just adopt all of the kids who would be given to orphanages. That isn’t even something that people talk about, let alone something that we have clear public policy on. So overturning Roe V Wade in the absence of such a movement or accompanying policy still leaves those kids in the orphanages. Barring a lot more open hearts.

 

[WWLaidback]

I just don’t see how that builds on (or contradicts) what I said about abortion

Abort children unless they cross the southern border, then the narrative suddenly changes to one of mercy and compassion.

PS: I know a decent couple that waited for years to adopt a child and it never came to them.
I know another couple that had to import their daughter from China.
No american babies ever came available to either of these deserving couples.
I just don't buy it about the "terrible" horrid life scenario.
I don't think you're that good at predicting the future.
Orphanages aren't as bad as you think.
Why don't you visit one sometime?

 

[maxmax77]

Abort children unless they cross the southern border, then the narrative suddenly changes to one of mercy and compassion.

PS: I know a decent couple that waited for years to adopt a child and it never came to them.
I know another couple that had to import their daughter from China.
No american babies ever came available to either of these deserving couples.

Yeah, I can see how that is a contradictory narrative—that is associated with classic liberal talking points. But I’m not “the liberals,” I’m someone who has clearly stated that they are not really a big fan of either party or the state of the US political system.

So yeah, it’s a contradictory narrative. I agree.

I had something else typed here after, but read your post incorrectly. So regarding the thing about adoption from abroad—I think what you identified there is that the adoption system in the US didn’t assign children to either of these couples. And that is definitely a shame, and a flaw in that system.

 

[WWLaidback]

Yeah, I can see how that is a contradictory narrative—that is associated with classic liberal talking points. But I’m not “the liberals,” I’m someone who has clearly stated that they are not really a big fan of either party or the state of the US political system.

So yeah, it’s a contradictory narrative. I agree.

I had something else typed here after, but read your post incorrectly. So regarding the thing about adoption from abroad—I think what you identified there is that the adoption system in the US didn’t assign children to either of these couples. And that is definitely a shame, and a flaw in that system.

now you are getting it.
The process is way expensive too.

Check this out:

Despite persistently negative and sensational media coverage, domestic adoption today is more transparent than ever before, and increasingly defined by healthier choices for birth families and adoptive families alike.

Adopting a Baby: The Truth About Domestic Infant Adoption | Adoptive Families

www.adoptivefamilies.com

Over and over again, the news media is the enemy of the people.

 

[maxmax77]

now you are getting it.
The process is way expensive too.

Check this out:

Despite persistently negative and sensational media coverage, domestic adoption today is more transparent than ever before, and increasingly defined by healthier choices for birth families and adoptive families alike.

Adopting a Baby: The Truth About Domestic Infant Adoption | Adoptive Families

www.adoptivefamilies.com

Over and over again, the news media is the enemy of the people.

Yeah man, the news sucks, it’s sensationalistic. If you can’t be right, be contrarian—just like that article.

But that still doesn’t contradict anything I said about abortion, and the other extremely important aspects of the issue that I think you and everyone in this country should be considering.

 

[WWLaidback]

I think Roe v. Wade has a dark place in the history book along side Stalin, Mao, and Hitler.
All of them are national genocides to get rid of "inconvenient people".

 

[WWLaidback]

the other extremely important aspects of the issue that I think you and everyone in this country should be considering.

The wife and I will do everything we can to help our daughter if she gets in that situation.
We would like grandchildren.
I don't understand the people that don't want grandchildren.

 

[maxmax77]

The wife and I will do everything we can to help our daughter if she gets in that situation.
We would like grandchildren.
I don't understand the people that don't want grandchildren.

And that is very good of you to want to help your daughter, of course. The issue arises when people don’t have the capacity to support themselves, let alone their kids or their kids’ kids. In that situation, which again is quite common, those kids are screwed.