R U going to heaven
- Thread starter dogooder
- Start date
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
I am sorry to hear that, I genuinley am
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Artistic license dooood! Ya gotta use your imagination.......He got away with shooting the dude in Reno...He was just laying the ground work for establishing that he was a naughty boy who ended up in Folsom...... probably for jay walking
Crazy thing is if he'd just waited till 2023 he'd of never had to worry about being arrested for jay walking because here in the land of fruits n nuts it's legal now
Your terms are acceptable. Will not begrudge the point, will let it go.....let it go.
Smithers XKR
Well-known member
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
I deleted a whole heap of posts on this thread.
Please think before you post
Please think before you post
PorterhouseMusic
Mitakuye Oyasin
Thanks for not unilaterally locking the thread.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
The truth, although "as a Christian" I should be more certain, I don't know. Being honest with myself, I too often fail miserably at being a Christian, Christ-like, a child of God. When God was asked by Moses in whose name shall I say I was sent, God answered, I Am, tell them I Am sent you. If I was made in God's image, I am, as well. I am responsible for myself, my actions, and my salvation. I try to remind myself to be a better man, be more charitable, be a better child of God, more Christ-like. I do. But too often I allow the ways of the world to influence my actions. The world is a beautiful place, but can also be ugly, depraved, I would not blame God if he turned his back on us.....yet at times I do. ^There's a lot of I's in there. Sure, one should be mindful of one's actions, try to be better, not become bitter, allow or hold the world and/or others responsible for what you alone can control. But at the same time you can't be in a constant state of beating yourself up, a constant state of self analysis. You are flawed, as are we all. My grandmother(Granny) was the most selfless woman/person I have ever known. Spent her whole life looking out for others. Came from nothing, raised 6 girls virtually by herself, worked at the Training School and Hospital caring for special needs patients, looked in on older neighbors, always putting other's needs before her own. I'm not sure if she had any (worldly) needs. She loved and trusted in God. I think her happiness was rooted in that trust, and love. There were things she could control, and things she could not. And that's just a fact of how things were, she accepted it, and did the best she could to help others accept it, by example.
Being good to one another, trusting in God, which in turn is being good to oneself, the best you can be....that's all we can do. The rest will take care of itself.
I reckon off the top of my head that's all I got.
Being good to one another, trusting in God, which in turn is being good to oneself, the best you can be....that's all we can do. The rest will take care of itself.
I reckon off the top of my head that's all I got.
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PorterhouseMusic
Mitakuye Oyasin
I would describe it as "perfectly imperfect". Our entire experience is a field of relativity. We have no idea or experience of up without down, hot without cold, left without right, here without there, love without fear, etc. There is no ultimate "right" or "wrong": There is only what works and what does not work... given whatever it is that we say that we want to be, do, and have - both individually and collectively.
The idea of "sin" and/or condemnation from some imaginary being is something I will not waste one moment of my life considering - and certainly not living in fear of.
I reserve the right to change who I am, my opinions, my views, and my actions based on new and more accurate information that I receive.
This is the guy that keeps calling me a troll, btw.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Not at all, seems/seemed a reasonable question, to me.
lol@...who are you talking to? I'll tell you what, quote me last where I "keeps calling me a troll", and the time before that. Should be easy, yeah? And please, btw, while you have our(?) attention, point to the place on the little dolly where it hurt you.
dogooder. dogooder was calling me a troll.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Ah, misunderstood. Apologies.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
You are certainly free to live your life any way you wish, as imperfectly imperfect as it may be. But let's not deceive ourselves. There are certain truths that are not subjective, malleable, subject to change, interpretive based on any given moment in time and circumstance, or further evidence needed. Those truths are self evident to those with eyes to see.
I'm not going to can of worms attempt to provide examples, but there is a seemingly growing sickness among us, our modern enlightened society, wherein not only are truths twisted beyond recognition, but false premises are accepted to stand in the place of fundamental truths. Truths based both on tradition as well as being long supported by science. Fundamental truths. The false premise of the subjective "My truth" usurping all rationale and intelligence. Unsupported, yet accepted, and the pressure to accept or there is no "there is no absolute right or wrong", you are simply and quite literally(as the young folks of today are fond of saying) wrong and a bad person. In fact, it flies in the face and is a total contradiction to the concept of "my truth". It is irrational madness. But hey, keep banging that drum. You're perfectly free to do so. Just stay off of my lawn.
dogooder
Well-known member
my purpose here? I am a sense organ for the creation.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
It's the new religion, imho, this..this lunacy. So you have the ol' "spaghetti monster in the sky", or this. You can take your bumps there, are you can take your bumps here. One you are free to choose, as an individual, self determination, as it were. The other stripped of your autonomy and hammered into the collective darkness of a round hole. Speaking of tradition and truths that are self evident, which option is aligned with and more closely resembles our beloved Constitution of the United States of America, the law of the land in which we are governed? Yet modern society suggests we should eschew one and pledge allegiance to the other? Why, that's ungodly, and downright unamerican.
There is no right or wrong, only what works, or the desired outcome? By any means to an end is an evil doctrine, immoral. That is assuming one believes in the concept of morality, which believing there is no right or wrong would suggest otherwise. Works for whom, the desired outcome for whom? Seems it is becoming an antiquated concept, but believe it or not some people still believe that honesty and being truthful is the right thing to do. Why not allow the good in the truth stand on its own? Frankly I can't imagine anyone preferring to be lied to in order for there to be a desired outcome....for somebody, or some purpose....a purpose based on a lie.
This whole mess of I reserve the right to change my mind based on new and changing information...it is heard it before garbage. An empty boast devoid of realistic real world application. The pandemic, all about following the science wherever it might lead or change as new information came unavailable? You were fucking lied to, dude. Lied to, over and over, from uncountable sources feeding you new and improved information, and they knew it was a lie. Both then and now. But hey, there is no right or wrong, only the desired goal. What do you have to say for that now, some old tired bullshit? Hm, maybe you were smart enough to know it was a lie all along....but, you know, keeping desired goals in mind. Obviously that shitcanned your credibility, and that of "the science". Not in your mind, perhaps, but for those who would like to believe that science can be for good in this world. A search for truth, and literal progress.
See, there I go. I was going to not go there with a can of worms. But in defense, I think it is becoming more and more vital in the name of good, and the truth, to call out lies and those who tell them....even when mindlessly doing so.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
Man, I love it when we here can come to agreement. I could have sworn somebody was just saying the other day what an, ahem, organ you were.
Mick Doobie
Resist We Much
These are the jokes, kids. Laugh it up!
famous beagle
Well-known member
I'm not so sure about that.
Free will is on very shaky ground, both scientifically and philosophically speaking.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I have much sympatico with this view; it is the experience of just about everybody at various points in our lives, often when we don't even realize it or know it consciously.
However, that relativity is not in conflict with the notion of sin. If one actually attempts to understand sin, what it is and how it is capable of staining every aspect of every human life {and no two people will be affected identically, which further complicates matters}, then it's not such a huge leap to actually see that that very relativity that you speak of exists precisely because of sin.
One of my favourite words and concepts is 'nuance'. Nuance has enabled me to understand and grapple with many things and not just take things on board "because the religion says I must" or however one would want to put it.
As a Christian, this is a concept and idea that I understand only too well. It is precisely why you are in the position where you can say what you say about God and life and experience. God considered it worth the risk and possible outcomes that you have the freedom to make the choices that you do. So the possibility must exist that there be up and down, left and right, hot and cold, shit and flower fragrance.....
My oldest son is currently at university studying psychology and a few years back, when he was doing his A levels, we had some utterly fascinating conversations, critiques and debates about this. It's a topic I could chat about until the cows and the bison
come home. 
Naturally, I disagree with you entirely. I don't think that there are many more dangerous thoughts a human being can have than the one that determines there is no right and wrong. Yes, I know you said ultimate right and wrong, but for there to be any notion of any ultimate right or wrong, there has to be the notion of right and wrong. And by dismissing one, you by extension dismiss the other, however you look at it.
Apply it on a personal level as the one on the receiving end and think about what that could logically mean.
Shiver me timbers !
⛴ 
️Murder works. Rape works. Child sexual abuse works. Theft works. Coercion works. Racism works. Occupation works. Woman-beating works. Having poverty works. Discrimination works. Greed works. Pretty much everything that we count as negative works.
And fair enough.
If we were talking about an imaginary being, I'd be right up there alongside you. And having been atheist for years, I can honestly say I know the feeling and can't hold it against you. I used to be highly dismissive of that which I did not believe, that which I had not experienced. I get it. It's as natural as listening and giving an ear.
There's a great song by Rush {it was the 2nd Rush song I ever heard, back in 1980} called "Free will" and it has a great line in it that has long nibbled at me ¬> "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Actually, the entire lyric is really solid and well put, but that bit, in particular, has always tugged at me. Sometimes, I think it's not so. Other times, I think it's true. Right at this moment, seeing the firm and strident way that you put that quote, I'd have to say that I think it certainly makes a valid point. If someone comes to me with data indicating that fried chicken on a daily basis is harmful to my heart and I choose to not even hear and consider the data but keep quaffing out on the chicken, then there is an extent to which, when my heart starts failing, I have only myself to blame. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" has always struck me as bloody stupid and more than unreasonable. Wilful ignorance of the law however, is another matter altogether.
Now, I totally agree with this. It applies to us all, at every point in life. We don't all always have "equal opportunities", but we all have to deal with the hand that we are dealt.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Well of course it is. It is one of the most nuanced things we can ever consider. It's not always straight down the line black and white.
But if you ever get attacked, robbed and beaten shitless, I expect you to be most courteous and reasonable to your attacker.
I won't be though !
