Super-noob question

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matolo

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Hi there.

So, I have been playing guitar for ever, and have a million ideas that I FINALLY want to get down somehow. I'm having difficulty because #1) I have a severely limited budget and #2) I am trying to work with what I have.

I have a relatively high end gaming PC, and can procure pretty much any recording software. I have Fruity Loops, Music Creator 6, and have tried a number of others. I have a guitar, and small Marshall practice amp, couple of pedals, and a stereo receiver that connects the PC to my TV via HDMI (so: PC > receiver > TV). I've created drums beats in Fruity Loops to jam with for my songs. I think I can just add those as tracks to play along with...

The first hurdle is getting my guitar piped into my PC. I've tried a direct guitar cable into the mic input on the PC...in some cases the PC picks that up, but no software sees that. Also, I understand I'll never get a good tone that way.

I could mic the amp, I suppose. I'd have to pick up a mic for that purpose if it's the only answer.

I guess what I am asking is: what is the cheapest/easiest way to set up a very basic way to get my ideas down? I'm not too concerned at this point about maximum quality, I just wanna get my ideas recorded.

Any advice anyone could provide would be MUCH appreciated!

Thanks :)

- MATOLO
 
Audio interface would be the starting point. That will at least get you the ability to plug your guitar in... from there you'd probably use amp sims unless your Marshall practice amp is a particularly good one... and you'd need an audio interface anyway.

Read the stickies up above in this forum to understand more. And make sure when you "procure" your software it's legit... try Reaper - free download for fully functional version, then pay when you like it.

Then start saving.... it gets worse from here. :thumbs up:
 
Something basic like this will ensure you get a strong guitar input signal, and it comes with some basic modeling software... (I use Amplitube 3 by the same company, it's top notch stuff!)

IK Multimedia | StealthPlug

If you plan to do vocals as well, it might make sense to pickup a cheap mixer (with phantom power, musician's friend usually has 4-8 input mixers on sale for $50 shipped) and depending on your computer setup a sound card with a decent stereo line-in. A lot of the Creative X-fi sound cards have good line-in circuits and can even utilize ASIO drivers (relatively low latency/delay).
 
Bit concerned about "can get almost any software" versus " very limited budget. Many forums will give you an instant ban if they even SUSPECT you are a software pirate.

That said, yes, you need an interface and with little money look out for a second hand M-Audio fast track pro, they run about £50-80 here. Other S/H kit, Tascam US 122/144 and if you are still XP the Emu 04040usb. Yesterday I saw a Lexicon Lambda in Cash Generators for £49.99 and am sorely tempted...Don't need it, just bloody curious!

But, you say you have a hot gaming PC? Well, for all their undoubted power, gamers can be tricky for audio. There can be momentary glitches that just don't show up in the "heat of battle" but piss the A off you on a guitar track that you had otherwise JUST nailed! Google "optimizing a PC for music recording". The tweaks are harmless. Two I would always do..
Kill windows sounds, those 'king bleeps and bloops.
Disable On Board Sound card (you have the AI?)
Stop Wireless adaptor
Oh! That's three!

Best of..

Dave.
 
Disagree with Pinkie above about using a mixer and Creative soundcards ....
Echo to read all the stickies in this section of the forum.
If you really are not highly concerned with sound quality, you could get a USB microphone to record your amp. But, you're stuck with that if you go that way. Better to get an audio interface that will 1) let you pug yoru guitar directly into it, or 2) plus a microphone in, or 3) plug a DI signal from an amp into it.
 
100% agree with mjbphotos here. Skip the creative sound cards all together and the mixer too. Anyways, looking for a cheap interface, there are a few options out there. The Lexicon Alpha comes with cubase and some reverbs. Interfaces that cheap aren't going to be of the best quality. Probly the best quality interface under $200 is going to be the focusrite 2i2 interface. Blows these other cheap interfaces out of the water, fast tracks included. And it comes with a few plugins and a copy of ableton live lite. And of course, watch it with the pirating, that's definitely not cool.
 
I've used a mixer into a creative x-fi for all my recordings dating back a couple years (currently using a m-audio PCI card, with almost zero latency... and it's obviously an improvement but for more $$).

Using something like a x-fi is an ideal solution when on a budget. You don't need to agree, it's just how the money adds up. For under $100 you can get a clean signal (with multiple inputs and phantom power) into the computer. If anyone has a more specific solution that can accomplish this for around the same cost, it would be useful to post it here... :)

This does look promising, but I have no personal experience with it and there are fewer inputs and hardware gain/EQ controls than a traditional mixer would provide.

I don't like when people poop on ideas that are fine for the intended purpose/need, especially when not everyone who comes to this forum has money to drop on a nominal gain in real or perceived performance. There's a clear line to the entry cost in getting a baseline setup. Not everyone starts or can afford to start at that level and compromises have to be made. if made, then they should know what to expect and which solutions work best.
 
mjbphotos said:
If you really are not highly concerned with sound quality, you could get a USB microphone to record your amp. But, you're stuck with that if you go that way. Better to get an audio interface that will 1) let you pug yoru guitar directly into it, or 2) plus a microphone in, or 3) plug a DI signal from an amp into it.
Click to expand...

I'm confused how you disagree with my post and offer this as a 'solution'. A usb mic? really? lol

My solution provides 1, 2, and 3 and for under $100. The latency with ASIO is less than 10ms on most systems (likely less with a decent gaming rig). there is absolutely no reason he couldn't use a x-fi gaming sound card with asio drivers to accomplish what he needs. Then he has the sound card for gaming as well as music production (again, something I did many years back when first starting out, also at the time a gamer). Arguably, depending on his needs, he may need to spend more than $100 on the sound card depending on his gamign needs, but used X-fi xtreme music models can be found on ebay for cheap and offer most of the latest eax and such compatibility.

I personally used one of these for a couple years, recorded two full solo albums (vocals, guitars) through a cheap behringer mixer into this card:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-XtremeMusic-Sound-Card-SB0460-NR603-/231089176141
 
Pinky said:
fi is an ideal solution when on a budget. You don't need to agree, it's just how the money adds up. For under $100 you can get a clean signal (with multiple inputs and phantom power) into the computer.
Click to expand...

Which model has multiple inputs and phantom?
I'm not familiar with the range, but didn't see those options on google.

Unbalanced I/O is enough for me to suggest buying something else.
If you're unlucky enough to set up your new creative card and hear hum and buzz, you've just wasted what little money you had.

OP may get something out of this thread.

OP, I'd suggest a 2nd hand USB audio interface with mic and/or DI input.
DI is designed for recording instruments like guitar and bass directly.
Having a mic input may be useful on down the road.

An old tascam us122 or something like would go a long way. :)
 
On extreme budgets like "under $100" my advice is usually find more money... it will be cheaper in the long run to find another $100 and buy something that has a reasonable "shelf life" along the learning curve...
 
Armistice said:
On extreme budgets like "under $100" my advice is usually find more money... it will be cheaper in the long run to find another $100 and buy something that has a reasonable "shelf life" along the learning curve...
Click to expand...


Or go hunting for drop bears. :thumbs up:
 
Cheapest I could find (behringer at least) was $65

GuitarCenter

$25 shipped for the sound card above, puts you at $90 plus shipping on the mixer.

I've not had any I/O issues using an external mixer (still do, same crappy Phonic MM1002 I've had for years). No hum, no hiss, and very low noise floor.

Again, if you don't have personal experience and someone who does posts something on the forum that teaches you something, then walk away with the knowledge. Don't get scornful because their idea doesn't match yours.

I have no reason to lead people astray. It's because of members offering this type of information to me 11 years ago when I joined this forum that afforded me many years of production practice and many good recordings. As I got better at it and had a few more spare $$ to spend, I upgraded a few things (better sound card, monitors, etc). I'm still on the low end, but I like to think I earn my mixes - I don't superfluously buy gear. The only requirement is to get a clean signal into the software. That doesn't even take hundreds of dollars to accomplish.

If the OP doesn't need to record vocals, then that IK Multimedia USB adapter for his guitar (which includes a starter version of Amplitube) might be the best bang for his bucks. IK makes damn good stuff. The Amplitube software they include (with money to buy tones on their store) is worth $50+ alone IMO.
 
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Pinky said:
Again, if you don't have personal experience and someone who does posts something on the forum that teaches you something, then walk away with the knowledge. Don't get scornful because their idea doesn't match yours.
Click to expand...

I have plenty of personal experience; Enough to tell me that unbalanced I/O is a gamble.
The nature of gambling is that you can win and you can lose.

I'd struggle to recommend a gamble to someone because, with my luck, they'd lose.

Without getting personal, I'd suggest that the above quote would be better directed at you.
 
I wouldn't consider this a gamble. It's not professional studio production quality, isn't intended to be, and therefor will always have subtle variations from application to application. This is a home recording forum, budgets abound. There simply aren't many (any) cheap solutions that have zero gamble involved. What I've posted has no more or less risk of bugginess than any other sub $200 'gamble', but costs less than $100. It's called cost analysis. if you want worry free and full technical support from a manufacturer, then expect to pay some $$. Otherwise, buyer knows to beware.
 
The majority of usb audio interfaces (if not all of them) have balanced inputs and outputs.
That rules out or greatly reduces the likelihood of the very common problem of picking up interference from AC, lights, dimmers etc.

I see no reason to recommend an unbalanced set up to anyone because, in my opinion, that's just asking for problems, but the final choice is the OP's.
I'm just giving my opinion based on experience with creative gear.
 
I for the life of me don't understand why unbalance anything is still in production.

Except for ... You know ... Guitar set ups. :rolleyes:
 
I think you're exagerrating the potential issues. Otherwise I obviously agree on all points.
 
Pinky said:
I think you're exagerrating the potential issues. Otherwise I obviously agree on all points.
Click to expand...
It depends how far he goes I guess. It's not inevitable but it's pretty common for this thing to snowball, right?
Same dude's back 2 months later looking for the best monitors for $40 or whatever.
It's just force of habit to make recommendations with the future in mind. Too many people come back having bought the wrong gear to start with.

moresound said:
I for the life of me don't understand why unbalance anything is still in production.

Except for ... You know ... Guitar set ups. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

LOL. duly noted.
Kinda hope he wants to mic the amp now. :facepalm:
 
Wow, what an unexpected plethora of helpful responses! What a fantastic community!

I just want to clarify that when I say I can procure whatever software, I mean I have several musician acquaintances who would be more than happy to sell me any of their software (and associated licence) for cheap, so I am sure whatever software ends up being the right one won't be my roadblock...it's the actual physical setup method and hardware I'm having trouble with. And, alas, I'm kind of embarrassed to ask them for their help :/

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who responded, I am filtering everything out and have a number of paths I can follow now. :)

- matolo
 
Those same musician acquaintances may have some spare gear laying around as well... ;)
 
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