Help Needed

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pikupsoldier

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Okay I'm pretty much a n00b to recording and have very little knowledge. So help me out if you can.

Problem :

Trying to record a track with 4 guitars + 2 Bass + 1 drum track running. Now, individually none of them overload or peak above 0db but when all of them are playing together in the mix, the meters go red.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
You turn the faders DOWN until the mix doesn't clip.

...just like the big boys....
 
Okay I'm pretty much a n00b to recording and have very little knowledge. So help me out if you can.

Problem :

Trying to record a track with 4 guitars + 2 Bass + 1 drum track running. Now, individually none of them overload or peak above 0db but when all of them are playing together in the mix, the meters go red.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thats because when the signals are summed, their combined volume adds up to more then any 1 of the individual volumes.

Basically, bring all the faders down 4dB or something. Just enough to give yourself some headroom on the main output. You shouldnt need to mix everything to the maximum output of whatever system you have. A little bit of extra space above the signal isnt going to hurt anyone (unless you produced metallicas most recent record...)
 
Thanks a lot!

And thank you for the link too, Massive Mastering. It really helped as Im new to all this.


I dont know if this is the right section, but ill ask anyway.


When i bring the levels down, the over all volume also reduces. Now Im no good at this and have very little idea. So guide me if i'm wrong.
I usually make the tracks louder by using a limiter. I boost the input by a certain level and limit it to around -.5db.
Is this the right way? Will it affect the quality of my signals in any way?
(I hope you get what I mean)
 
P.S : MassiveMastering the end of that blog did talk about something like that. But I'd prefer if any of you could answer my question. :)
 
First, let's get some semantics out of the way --

It's not "quiet" -- It's "normal." The typical CD's coming out today are anything but "normal" in level. They're squashed almost beyond recognition simply for the sake of a 'pissing contest' between other artists and labels. The end-user didn't ask for this.

I'm not going off on a "loudness war" rant - I'm just explaining that recordings aren't recorded "loud" -- It's part of the very last (and most insignificant) part of the mastering phase where the end volume is established. It's far beyond where most gear is designed to run and it shouldn't be confused with anything typical in the recording process.

Tracking at "more normal" levels simply allows your gear to function as it was designed to within the parameters of pretty much every single other piece of gear out there. "Recording at hot as possible without clipping" was written by some dolt behind a desk that has no idea about sound.

Anyway - Back to your question...

A brickwall limiter, by design, will indeed damage audio. Let's not sugar-coat it -- That's what it's designed to do - Permanently decimate and destroy dynamics, no questions asked. That audio information is gone and nothing later on in the chain is going to bring it back. So by all means YES, it will affect the quality of your signal.

Unfortunately, that's become the norm when seeking 'war volume' these days.

But almost without question, it's the mixes that were recorded and mixed well, with reasonable amounts of headroom at every possible stage, that will deal with this digital destruction with the most class and the least nasty artifacts, all things considered. And certainly, not all limiters are created equal either -- Some do a much better job than others. But universally, the best mixes before limiting are the best mixes after also.
 
Okay, thanks a lot man!

I'm not really looking to have a super loud mix. Just looking at something in line with the usual loudness of mixes done professionally.

Mainly cause if my mix is on my player, the pro done mix will kill my ears at the max volume whereas my mix is hardly audible.
Okay, I did exagerrate.:)
It's not that bad but yeah, just sounds way softer.
 
Simply slamming the mix against a limiter is a very rough way of boosting the overall volume. You're on the right track, but you'd get better results with a little more finesse and technique.

I like to compare it to the finishing phase in woodworking; you don't want to just slap the wood across a belt sander, throw a coat of varnish on it and call it done. Instead, you use the belt sander to take out the gross imperfections, then hand sand it with some medium-grit sandpaper, then once more with some fine grain sandpaper. Then stain it, maybe twice, and finally poly coat it for the final finish.

Translate that to audio, and here's roughly what I come up with*:

1. Tame the wild peaks first - i.e. any peaks coming out of the mixdown that are grossly higher than the average peak level. Occasionally there are some wild hairs sticking farther out of the mix than your average signal peak due to noise or simple coincidence in summing. I like to manually edit those down first, though using a limiter to bring them in line can work well also.

2. Run a parametric sweep individually on each side the mix to get rid of "honker" frequencies in the mix. Often times these honkers will reveal themselves in a bad way after substantial compression or limiting, and I find it easier and cleaner to get rid of them now before they stick out.

3. Apply light peak compression to the mix. The exact value varies depending upon the actual program material, but usually something in the 1.5:1 range (give or take), with threshold and attack/release set to work on the peaks above RMS.

4. Listen for and perform any light EQ smoothing that step 3 may have made necessary. This may or may not be necessary at this point.

5. Apply a second coat of light to medium compression, but this time pull the threshold down to maybe 50-70% of the RMS level, to tighten up the whole mix just a bit. Exact values are by ear; if I can hear the compression, I've gone too far and need to back off a bit.

6. For me, some EQ is more often than not desired at this point. It may be either some gentle shaping and nudges at low Q of a dB or two here or there, or it may be a little surgical high Q notching to get rid of harshies and honkers that come out of the woodwork, or it may be some of both. This should yield the final sound I'm looking for. But if I need some heavy EQ at this point just to make a bad-sounding mix sound good, that's an indication that I missed something earlier on and should backtrack to step 2 or 4 and get it right earlier than try to fix it now.

7. Now is when I decide whether to simply boost the output gain to give me my final volume, or whether I still want or need to squeeze even more out of it by running it through a final limiter. If I do limit it, it's strictly by ear; numbers mean nothing to me at this point. There's a point in every mix where it just starts sounding "pushed", and I draw the line there. If I hear that, I stop there and then back off the limiter by a dB or so. That's my final mix. (Rarely does the limiter need to flatten the mix by more than 2 or 3 dB to achieve that result for me.)

*DISCLAIMER: I am an editor and mix engineer more than anything else. While I have done and do some mastering work, I do not claim to be or consider myself a pro mastering engineer such as Massive Master or Masteringhouse or the rest. So take my method with that heavy grain of salt.

Also, this procedure should be considered a general outline, not a fixed recipe. It is an average sampling to give an idea of the general procedure I like to use, and will vary in number of steps and settings used in each step based upon the needs of the mix.


G.
 
I'm not really looking to have a super loud mix. Just looking at something in line with the usual loudness of mixes done professionally.
I... well, I - uh... :confused:
 
I..'m not really looking to have a super loud mix. Just looking at something in line with the usual loudness of mixes done professionally.
Let's try this again then. Unless you happen to be talking about mixes before being smashtered for 'cd'- the 'usual' loudness is super loud.
There in lies the rub.
 
1. Tame the wild peaks first - i.e. any peaks coming out of the mixdown that are grossly higher than the average peak level. Occasionally there are some wild hairs sticking farther out of the mix than your average signal peak due to noise or simple coincidence in summing. I like to manually edit those down first, though using a limiter to bring them in line can work well also.

.

how do I find out my RMS value?

if I already have a compressor on my track do I just put another one after it and make it a limiter?

ex. EQ>Compressor>Limiter
 
2. Run a parametric sweep individually on each side the mix to get rid of "honker" frequencies in the mix. Often times these honkers will reveal themselves in a bad way after substantial compression or limiting, and I find it easier and cleaner to get rid of them now before they stick out.


what is parametric sweep? can I do that in protools?

sorry I don't know how to multi-quote
 
3. Apply light peak compression to the mix. The exact value varies depending upon the actual program material, but usually something in the 1.5:1 range (give or take), with threshold and attack/release set to work on the peaks above RMS.

light peak compression?

would this be where my threshold is barely pulled down like a decibel or two?

how do you set your attack-release to work on peaks above RMS?
 
4. Listen for and perform any light EQ smoothing that step 3 may have made necessary. This may or may not be necessary at this point.

5. Apply a second coat of light to medium compression, but this time pull the threshold down to maybe 50-70% of the RMS level, to tighten up the whole mix just a bit. Exact values are by ear; if I can hear the compression, I've gone too far and need to back off a bit.

this is EQ and compression on the master fader?
 
how do I find out my RMS value?

if I already have a compressor on my track do I just put another one after it and make it a limiter?

ex. EQ>Compressor>Limiter

what is parametric sweep? can I do that in protools?

sorry I don't know how to multi-quote

light peak compression?

would this be where my threshold is barely pulled down like a decibel or two?

how do you set your attack-release to work on peaks above RMS?

this is EQ and compression on the master fader?
It's your task to answer those questions.

I'll tell you this much:
The answer to the parametric sweep is on my website.
Forget the master faders; this is not mixing, it's mastering.
If you can't figure out multi-quoting, you'll never figure out mastering.
The rest is back at your original thread.
 
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Okay, My Bad..I dint really mean that. :)

Kinda hard to explain.

Thank you, Glen btw.:)
 
Okay so now i finished recording all the parts.

Totally parts are recorded on 25-30 tracks. All of them Not playing simultaneously.

Now there are around 15-18 tracks playing simultaneously and my levels overload. I wanted to know if theres any particular way I should go about bringing the levels down for the tracks cause I get confused on what to bring down how much:confused:. So any help/tips would be more than welcome!
 
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