Why record higher than 44.1 khz?

  • Thread starter Thread starter c_olin
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I record always at 44.1. There may be some benefits at using higher rates, but I suspect that any such benefits are overwhelmed by other weaknesses in my signal path. I'll live with 44.1 and enjoy the lack of demand on disk space and CPU, which is of greater value to me than a potential increase in quality.
I'm a stickler for good sound (I would hope that would be obvious to most people) and I agree with your approach (as do between 70 and 80% of full-time audio professionals, who also record at the target rate). On the few, rare occasions that recording at higher sample rates is actually beneficial, that tiny, tiny, almost insignificant benefit is completely and utterly dwarfed by the core sounds - and the care taken in capturing them.

If one can't make an absolutely spectacular sounding recording at 44.1kHz, then bumping up the sample rate is hopeless.
 
BTW, the Metallica 'black album' was mastered from a 44.1k 16 bit DAT tape. It's sold 16 million records so far...

So if I mastered my album from a 24 bit DAT tape, would I sell 24 million records?


Thanks for the replies, they have answered my questions.
 
So if I mastered my album from a 24 bit DAT tape, would I sell 24 million records?


Thanks for the replies, they have answered my questions.

hehehe......and 32bit floating would sell............???:D

It's odd,..but I made some great 'sounding' recordings on the SB Live! series of cards.:eek:
 
why take a picture at 3 megapixels when you can take it at 6megapixels.
thats how i think of it.
:)
 
why take a picture at 3 megapixels when you can take it at 6megapixels.
thats how i think of it.
:)
If your eyes could only see 2.8 megapixels and your camera can only
output 3 megapixels why take it at 6megapixels? :rolleyes::p ^oo^
 
haha...I guess that explains my 32 CD sales!!!:)
Glad I didn't record in 16bit!....would've halved my sales!:eek:

That's it! Next time I make a cd, it's just going to be a single 700 MB sample.
According to this conversion rate, I'll sell... 5.8 billion copies! Man the .7 billion people worldwide who don't own a copy will feel so out of the loop!
 
why take a picture at 3 megapixels when you can take it at 6megapixels.
thats how i think of it.
:)
The problem is that's a false analogy. Sample rate does not equal resolution, like everybody likes to think it does. It equals frequency response. Sampling at 96k is like taking an image that goes into the far ultraviolet in the frequency spectrum. There's no point to it when it's well beyond what the human eye can see - not to mention what the display screen or print medium can reproduce.

G.
 
Going a step further - In both (audio & video) bit depth is accuracy of what's being captured. In audio, it's sheer accuracy of level. In video (or photography, graphic arts, etc.), it's sheer accuracy of color.

Few people will argue against high word lengths --
 
I've noticed that most basic computer audio interfaces have the ability to record up to 96 khz. My question is, if you aren't planning on releasing your music in DVD-A format, what are the advantages to this? If the end result will be 44.1 khz, why record higher?

Possibly this belongs in the newbie forum.

This has been covered pretty well. I'll just add that I stick with 44.1 for most all of the reasons, including the fact that my Yamaha standalone only does 44.1 so it helps with DAW compatibility, and my old Mac suffers if I force it to deal with higher sample rates and more data, so the sound can actually be worse at the higher rate.

Thankfully, I'm now 45 and can barely hear 17K any more, much less 20K.

Cheers,

Otto
 
This has been covered pretty well. I'll just add that I stick with 44.1 for most all of the reasons, including the fact that my Yamaha standalone only does 44.1 so it helps with DAW compatibility, and my old Mac suffers if I force it to deal with higher sample rates and more data, so the sound can actually be worse at the higher rate.

Thankfully, I'm now 45 and can barely hear 17K any more, much less 20K.

Cheers,

Otto


yep...you'll be happy with the sound quality.....
now.....what about your music quality????:):):)
Cheers.
 
yep...you'll be happy with the sound quality.....
now.....what about your music quality????:):):)
Cheers.
I have never had anyone say "Wow, this album would really sound great if there was just a little more 19.5k." There is a reason for that, it doesn't matter much.
 
yep...you'll be happy with the sound quality.....
now.....what about your music quality????:):):)
Cheers.

I'm careful to make sure I never become so popular that the public takes an interest in my music. :) The music quality varies widely from day to day and month to month, but the craft, at least, is adequate.

Cheers,

Otto
 
I'm careful to make sure I never become so popular that the public takes an interest in my music. :) The music quality varies widely from day to day and month to month, but the craft, at least, is adequate.

Cheers,

Otto

yep..I hear ya!:)
 
Going a step further - In both (audio & video) bit depth is accuracy of what's being captured. In audio, it's sheer accuracy of level. In video (or photography, graphic arts, etc.), it's sheer accuracy of color.

Few people will argue against high word lengths --

Thats what I tried to elicit from you :)
But in all seriousness, why not if its there and its more accurate.
 
But in all seriousness, why not if its there and its more accurate.
Because it's not really more accurate...at least not in the way that most folks think.

Sample rate is described by the Nyquist theorem which mathematically proves that a *lossless* reproduction of an analog frequency only requires a sample rate of twice that frequency. this means that at a sample rate of 44.1kHz one can losslessly encode/decode a 20kHz signal with some sample room left over (used for other physical considerations).

What this means is that one only need to take two samples for every wave cycle for lossless encoding/decoding. At that frequency, it's not the stairstep you see in most diagrams, because at that "resolution" there just aren't that many samples. But there doesn't need to be. Lossless means 100% accurate.

At a sample rate of 96kHz, one is only increasing the alleged "resolution" for a 20kHz wave from just over 2 samples to just under 5 samples per wave. Not only is that still not enough "resolution" to get a good reconstruction by "connecting the dots", but it doesn't matter because that's not how Nyquist does it.

Remember, more slices (faster sample rate) may increase the "resolution", but only in that the increased resolution means a higher frequency, not a more accurate lower frequency. Just as 44.1 kHz means accurate reproduction of at least 20kHz, a 96kHz sample rate only ensures that the accurate reproduction range is increased to somewhere in the 40kHz range.

Very few, if any, of the folks reading this, including me, can hear anything past 17kHz, and there's plenty of rockers here that have difficulty on anything past 14khz. Since increasing the sample rate above 44.1kHz in an of itself has zero effect on accuracy in the 14-17kHz range, and only extends the range even further above our hearing than 20khz already does, well beyond the range of dog whistles - and well beyond the range of either our gear or our ears to reproduce - and there is no advantage to the faster sample rate. you're only eating up CPU cycles and hard disc space for no reason.

Before anybody comes back and says, "but my stuff sounds better at this rate than at that rate", that may very well be true. But it's NOT because of the actual sample rate itself; it's because of some design flaw or idiosyncrasy in the converter itself that causes different performance level or coloration between frequency settings. And there no guarantee that Frequency A is always going to sound better than frequency B when you move to another converter just because it does on the one your using now; each model of converter can have it's own character.

G.
 
Even without humans being able to hear it - Few mics can hear it. Few preamps can reproduce it. Few processors can process it. Few amplifiers can render it. Few speakers can reproduce it.

*If* your *entire chain* can handle those frequencies - and you're recording something that actually produces those frequencies - Then go right ahead.

My tracking rig actually *can* reproduce those frequencies - The weak point is my tweeters (that start to slope downward somewhere around 35kHz). And I still track at 44.1kHz 90% of the time.
 
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