What do these lyrics mean to you?

H

Hoodoo

New member
This is my first posting of lyrics here on the HR bbs. I dug up this song I wrote over 12 years ago, so I'm interested to read feedback on it in this day.

By all means, post your most positive and critical feedback...

Rise Up

Open the door, the stranger walks in
You catch his eye, that twinkle of sin
I am the hour and I am the day
I’ve come to take your pain away

I am the leader of feeders unsung
Victory is sweet, a battery on your tongue
Part of us died on the vine today
You took it with you, we didn’t give it away

bridge
Between the here and now, I can’t understand
Why wrong is so right when it’s not in demand
Biding my time without hourglass sand
Oh, oh, oh…

Chorus
Like a house of cards in a hurricane
You stand for nothing, and fall for anything
Don’t wait for today to make war on tomorrow
24-7 goes down at the top of the hour
I will rise up again and again
I will fly on to heaven and then
Join the fight for good and right
We are survivors on the night​

bridge
I climbed this hill just to fall back down
Screamed out my lungs just to hear the sound
My soul is somewhere in the lost and found
Ah, ah, ah, ah…

He was not yet fifty as the boy pulled up a chair
A face of lines and pages, his age filling the air
I will speak to you of things they do not dare
Don’t look around you it’s you who must care
You cannot wait for them to arrange
For you are the one who will make this world change

To prepare for your life you must die once today
Better cut short than wasted away
Serving your vice is the price you will pay
Oh, oh, oh…

Chorus
Like a house of cards in a hurricane
You stand for nothing, and fall for anything
Don’t wait for today to make war on tomorrow
24-7 goes down at the top of the hour
I will rise up again and again
I will fly on to heaven and then
Join the fight for good and right
We are survivors on the night​

I will rise up
backing (We are the writers of hate and of sin)​
I will rise up
(We are the lie and we are the spin)​
I will rise up
(Do not be frightened when we take you in)​
I will rise up
(Together we’ll conquer again and again)​
 
very cool lyrics. I really like the ambiguity within the story that's being told here. HAs some interesting dark/mysterious overtones to it, but also a crescendo/climax building at the end. like it.

I especially dig the lyrical "hooks" you have throughout the song, like the battery on my tongue and the house of cards in a hurricane lines.

cool stuff-- I'm diggin it!
 
Monday,12th July,UK,2004

Dear Hoodoo,

I like the lyricks, they tell a story, and as a story they do not need music to support them. The music can only make it stronger. What kind of music have you got for it, acoustic or...perhaps...even..some dark, kind of rock sounds....?

Here is a breakdown of some of the things I thought:
# Detailed, asks a lot of the listener, you see us, musician type of folk, love this kind of stuff, but the average listener has a short concentration-span, and anything a little different from the usual is too much for them. Do you need to write for a large audience? Well no.. but you need some people who listen to your music, and muscians are not the best types, since we tend to listen to it anyway [good or not], because that is the nature of the being.

# Different perspectives: You go from Thrid person[HE] to First person , creates some movement and momentum....good!

# Repetion at the end builds up to a climax, well done!!!

Finally here are some questions for you: Have you got certain writing-techniques, methods you use over and over again, or is any writing-moment different? Next time I will post you some of my lyricks, and will also include some details about the actual writing-process.

For now have to dash, as I do not own my own computer and are using a public facility, so I'll catch ya later,

Eddie de Hamer. :) :cool: :cool:
 
Thanks for the feedback so far. I appreciate the perspective and other viewpoints-- this is a great forum to view your work from someone else's shoes.

Some history on this song-- this actually was the FIRST song I ever wrote, both lyrics and music. The music is a darker, "alternative rock" song which I recorded on a 4-track cassette in 1992. I performed the song at a music talent show in a town I was living in California and won first place (much to my surprise).

For me, the song is really a conversation about light & dark, good & evil, and ultimately, choices. One of my techniques is to pull together these lyrical "bites" into a larger, more cohesive story. This one ended up being a little darker than I initially planned, but it's interesting when a song just kind of comes together on its own. I have this pet theory that a song already exists, it just takes some mental exercise to move it from the universe of ideas to the physical one of words and music.

Thanks again for the exchange. I'm interested to hear more about your own techniques for pulling a song together.
 
What do the words me to me? I originally interpreted the grim reaper come calling, but as the lyrics progressed it seemd as much about life/death and perhaps some type of afterlife. After reading it a second time I can see the good vs. evil concept.

Although "songwriting" means many things to many people - I've always thought lyrics should: 1) Tell a story, 2) Paint an image, 3) Generate thought or interpretation and 4) Relate to others (or touch them) in some manner.

Certainly you tell a story - although it doesn't follow a clear line from start to end (although it does start with opening the door to death? and ends with I will rise up). It does create some dark images (although not images that can be clearly defined). Certainly it is subject to interpretation. How it relates to others - that is not for me to say.

Unlike Timmerman, I have trouble with the different perspectives - since it is difficult for me to understand who's perspective is who's at various points (there are 3 or 4 places where the person who speaks (I) are likely different people/spirits). Normally, it is considered a writing error to jump from 1st party to 3rd party, etc.

That all being said, I did find the lyrics to be very interesting.
 
Hoodoo said:
I have this pet theory that a song already exists, it just takes some mental exercise to move it from the universe of ideas to the physical one of words and music.
Click to expand...

yeah, you become a conduit for the song to arrive here. Makes copyrights a little less important, or something... of course, someone had to be the conduit, and if you do it first....

sometimes I think there's musical archetypes floating around in that Universe of Ideas place, too... many which we've already uncovered, and many more which need some digging. Like Plato's stuff about the Forms or whatever... sorry about the tangent
 
It is an interesting concept as to where songs come from. I've seen many interviews of major songwriters (Paul Simon, Michael Jackson, others) who state that the song just "comes to them". It's not that they sat down and deliberately wrote a particular hit, but almost a "divine intervention" of sorts that "delivered" the song to them.

I'd suppose talent is the same thing. Some get it (it spades), some don't.

As for me, I just know there's a major hit song in me, it just hasn't hit my inner musical ear yet... ;)
 
wednesdaymorning, 14th July,UK

Hello Hoodoo, Mikeh and Topolino[taken from a Pixies song perhaps?]

Nice to be back again, sorry for the delay, have not got my own computer, so cannot be on line every day, so there will be delays in the discussion from my side, but heh, who cares eh?

Seems that we all agree that the song is already in us and we only have to take it out.

Mikeh do you feel that writing-errors can be used on purpose to create a certain effect, e.g to exaggarate a certain effect?. To come back to Hoodoo's song I agree that the different perspectives are not very clear, in fact the whole story is a little vague, but interesting nevertheless.

Does anyone of you just sit down and write and not think to hard about what it is you are writing? I feel fist drafts are the best, and the additonal editing only takes away from the original meaning. I very often leave songs as they are, and I accept that some of the are utterly silly, however they reflect that very moment of the process. Perhaps the secret is to keep working and accept that not all you create is great, however some of it will, hopefully.

What techniques do I use for writing? A lot of different ones, one of them is the spontaneous one as described above. I also just write lyricks, and later I come back to them to add music, sometimes, however, the music and words come together. Usually I do not think too much of it, in terms of being good or not. I feel, whenever I do that, I block of the process in that way. I am not truely unique in doing so, a lot of creative people will tell you that you just have to keep moving, and create.

To avoid too much of repeating yourself I study new techniques of playing[ I play guitar, bass and keys] and feel that whatever I have studied for a while will filter through in my own playing-style. Again I know a lot of people who do this, after all we are not an island on our own [although I live on one at the moment, though it is a rather influential one I have to say]

Has anyone of you ever tried writing together with someone else, I mean music and words? Well I have, and I must say it does take time and give and take form both sides, but it is certainly worth it. I enjoy the idea of sharing the process with others. In a way that are forums like this one are for. Perhaps we could get some lyricks together on this site?

So I leave you with all of this, see what you guys think, see ya later

Eddie de Timmerman
 
Timmerman,

I suppose what could be considered writing errors could also be used on purpose for effect, as we all know there are no real rights or wrongs. My reference to the writing error in Hoodoo's song referred to the variance in which party was "speaking". If a song tells a story, then it is normally easier for the listener if they have a clear understand who is tellling the story (or if the story is a two person dialog, etc).

In response to your question about thinking too much while writing. I fall in the camp of those who feel we are conduits for certain musical ideas, phrases, etc. However, once the muse hits, part of the craft is to take those snipets of raw inspiration and work on them to create a better end result. I tend to do a few re-writes on any given song (mainly to improve the flow of the story (a clear beginning & ending) and to correct weak rhymes and/or phrases. I tend to spend way to much time on arrangements (substitue chords, riffs etc.), but I view that as a production issue more than a writing issue.

I agree that improving your skills on your instrument of choice can help broaden your abilities to compose. Like you, (like many people on this site) I play several instruments, which influences my writing style. Tunes I write on guitar tend to be more "riff" driven, with more basic power chords. Songs I write on keys tend to be more melodic with more complex chord progressions, etc. Regardless of the instrument I use, the more I master that instrument, the more free I am to create.

I always use the comparison to an artist who works in black and white, vs. one who works in many colors. While black and white (a 3 chord progression?) can be effective and potent, a painting in many colors (augmented chords, etc) would normally appeal to more people (even if they don't understand why they like it)..
 
Thursdayafternoon, 15th July,Leeds, UK, 2004

Dear Mikeh,

I like your comparison of "working in black and white" versus "working in colour" Perhaps you could say that a lot of contemporary pop-music is like "working in black and white". Anyway, do you record your songs once they are "finished" or do you mainly perform them?. Do you mainly work on your own or do you record with others as well?. And what about making music with people on the net, have you tried that yet?

Me? Well I am relatively new to internet, so I do not make music with others on the net yet[even do not own my own computer!]. I write my songs and record them after a while, sometimes a song gets writen during the process of recording. I really like those ones, because they are very spontaneous. As far as playing with others goes, I have played in a lot of bands, bands of various styles, but at the moment I enjoy working on my own.

What do you think about my previous question about writing lyrics together here on the net? Seems like a good idea or is it perhaps something you are not familiar with?

Just some general questions now, just out of interest: You see, as it is we go from one subject to another: Hoodoo started all this off with his song, and we seem to use that as a platform for the discussion in general. Well should we open a new thread as we go into different subjects or can we just stay here and carry on as we are. Of course there is no "right or wrong" but there is probably some kind of unwriten rule. Also, I respond to your mail, but this whole thing is open to anyone, so feel free to start something of.

Right, I leave this with you and I'll catch you later as they say here.

Eddie the Carpenter
 
Hey guys-

Great dialog, I'm enjoying it. Some things to share- in my song I originally had quotes (" ") around the person speaking the original lines. Reading it, it makes it clearer, but since I assumed someone would be hearing the song, I omitted them in this post. Maybe it adds to the "mystery" of the song (ha ha). :D

Eddie- you have an idea I've been stewing with for years-- open songwriting. I'm in the software business, so I beg your indulgence for a sec. There's a movement called "open source software" (you may have heard of Linux) which is basically a bunch of developers on the internet openly contributing to an "open source" project. The idea is that 100, 4,000, or even 10,00 heads all working towards the same goal may deliver something very powerful (and free) to the community that uses it. In fact, there are some audio software programs that have benefitted from this.

I've had this idea for a long time that this could be an interesing experiment for songwriting. One person starts with the nugget of the idea (say, "let's write a song about loving someone, but asking why we hurt them") and lots of other people add to it, edit it, etc. The result may be total chaos, but it may also be something that no one person could have "discovered" on their own.

So to get right to it, I'm certainly interested in collaborating with others to explore where things might go, and hell, even post the progress openly for all to see (like here!)

Sorry, I could go on with this for hours (days), so I'll end it here to read your feedback.
 
I'm sure it was not our intent to take over Hoodoo's post. Glad to see Hoodoo signed back on.

Regarding writing with others. The best material I've written (and certainly the best stuff I've had published) was written with someone. It always helps to have another view.

From time to time I still try to find co-writers, but it is difficult to coordinate schedules or find people who want to consistantly commit time. Recently, I had two different co-writing attmpts fail when the other parties just could not find time - to bad because some of the ideas we were working on were not bad at all. It's always hard to find people who can share the same vision, commitment, etc.

Regarding writing over the net, while I think it's an interesting concept I question how well it could work. Art must demand certain immediate energy.
I need to be able to look someone in the eye and share ideas for an immediate flow - not wait for email responses, etc.

I would be very interested to see how effective something could be - I hope Hoodoo gets some response.
 
No problem hihacking the post. I often post messages with the intent they lead to somewhere interesting.

I'd agree that the "open songwriting" idea may not work from a creation standpoint, but from an editing/review standpoint you'd certainly have a lot of eyes on something. Certainly the creative process of songwriting is very different than coding software, but I thought the "open source" concept of it could result in something you might not expect. I enjoy reading stories about the songwriting process-- like how Elton John and Bernie Taupin are literally in 2 different rooms, but the music and lyrics come together as something pretty amazing. Lots of similar stories with other writing collaborations.

Speaking of which MikeH, what kind of stuff are you interested in writing? Have you posted anything here I can read/listen to?
 
Hoodoo,

I have not posted anything (I think I did post lyrics one time "Open Mic Night Cowboy".

I tend to write very traditional material - often in more of a country genre. I try to focus on intellegent chords progressions and clever lyrics . My main areas of focus are writing things to be published/placed - and country is one of the best markets (at least for me).

I also compose some music for industrial training videos, music on hold, jingles, and on rare occasions for independent films.

Since I'm older, I don't tend to write the dark, brooding material (I'm simply not a young, angry man anymore) I leave that to the young guys:D

I don't post cause I'm more interesed in getting material to my publisher than getting it on line. Candidly, I spend too much time on this site as is, but I enjoy the views and ideas (and hopfully I contribute something positive from time to time).
 
mikeh said:
Hoodoo,

I have not posted anything (I think I did post lyrics one time "Open Mic Night Cowboy".

I tend to write very traditional material - often in more of a country genre. I try to focus on intellegent chords progressions and clever lyrics . My main areas of focus are writing things to be published/placed - and country is one of the best markets (at least for me).

I also compose some music for industrial training videos, music on hold, jingles, and on rare occasions for independent films.

Since I'm older, I don't tend to write the dark, brooding material (I'm simply not a young, angry man anymore) I leave that to the young guys:D

I don't post cause I'm more interesed in getting material to my publisher than getting it on line. Candidly, I spend too much time on this site as is, but I enjoy the views and ideas (and hopfully I contribute something positive from time to time).
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I must have been that "angry young man" 12 years ago, but I'm older now and the evolution of my approach, thoughts, and resulting songwriting are reflective of that. I, too, probably spend much more time on here than I need to (or care to), but it seems there's always something worthwhile to catch up on here.

If you do happen to have anything at a stage you'd like a second set of eyes on, feel free to PM it to me. I can happily offer criticism if you're seeking it ;) , or even contribute to the direction you're trying to go.
 
Fridaymorning 16th July, Leeds,UK, 2004

Hi to all of you [ Hoodoo,Mikeh and Poutine and......others]

First of all glad to see that people enjoy the discussion, and I will here respond to some of what you have said earlier before. The downfall with electr. comm.,as we do here, is the timelapse, so it takes discipline and time to keep to the subject, and also to communicate with all of us instead of only responding to the last post, which is [I agree] so easy to do.

Anyway, time is precious for all of us, and it seems that we all spend to much on this medium, so let us get to it.

Hoodoo, I like what you said about the software, you see computerwise I am fresh, I know how to mail, how to use wordprocessing and for the rest I just try the buttons, which I suppose is allright, however it means there are some lapses in my comp. knowledge. So software ect. is at the moment a little out of reach. Not to worry man, we can still write together and share ideas.

Mikeh, I understand that you feel a little older, but what is age eh? I guess none of us here is 16 anyway. So I do not think age should be a problem for writing some lyrics together. What you mentioned about "problems with finding people, same schedules ect." I think this goes for many of us. I do not want to run ahead yet and I will come back to this later.

Poutine, don't worry that you do not understand Hoodoo's lyrics, as we are about to start something new[hopefully] so just take part of what goes on and enjoy.

Perhaps you all think that I talk too much, so no more of that and let me explain what we could do: Let us brainstorm about subjects we could write about, if you like the subject you may wish to start writing already, I will leave that to you. So here are some topics:

# time in the modern world
# love in the modern world
# generation-gaps do they still exhist or........?
# cultural gaps are there any or.........?
# the ease with how we seem to do things [techn. ect.]

Right now what I'll do is write some first sentences, which people could fill up, so in other words we about to make a start of writing a story togeher.
Please be not too critical about yourself or others, just enjoy the process for the time being, we can always fine-tune later. So here are some sentences:

#The man on the radio sounds dull, but I like his voice anyway so........

# She knows how to draw attention, but she does not know how to keep it......

# Empy faces staring in a beer can is all I see when I walk from here to your............

# You'd like to see me smile but deep down inside there is a pain which......

# Yuk yuk ya toubadour is on to .................

Well I think you get the picture eh, so have fun and I'll meet ya later.

Eddie
 
wow guys,
sorry to barge in like this but i was just reading over this post and it's very interesting. i learned about new techniques that i've really never used before.
in regards to the age thing.. i'm a pretty young guy (19 years old) but i can somehow relate to the things you guys are saying. i just started writing a little over a year ago. mostly love songs with a "pop-punk" sort of sound to them. but i feel that in the past year or so my lyric writing skills have progressed drastically. the first song i wrote had very redundant lyrics... for example.. "her radiance is bright"... now that is just not that great. i just posted lyrics, to a song i recently wrote, in this forum.

but as for the actual songwriting process.. i usually just come up with a melody while playing guitar and try to add the lyrics to the music itself. i am thinking that actually writing the lyrics first would make a better sounding song.. also, most of my songs sound very similar and i want to stray from the similarities and write something very different from my past songs.. if you'd like you could go to http://rottedham.com and go to the downloads section and listen to them for yourself, if you have time. i've written many songs.. but i've only taken the time to record a few. i suppose writing the lyrics first could bring out a totally new sound in my music? i am really glad timmerman mentioned that. well i better get going. i can't wait to hear more added to this conversation.

Chris
 
I like this song, well written. Still not sure as to the meaning, but still. Could be worth something someday.. Good stuff!

-Rob
 
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