tips on hooks~

D

Dead Moon Boy

New member
i've never been the greatest at coming up with catchy hooks.

when i write lyrics....i just sorta write, i try and keep a formula and structure, but i pretty much just write about something.
but i can never really come up with a catchy hook.
i can never really think of a word, or a few words that some up what the whole sing is about, and even if i could, ijust cant find a clever way of placing it.

what is everyone's formula for hook's/choruses?
 
Hooks are generally simple. The most basic part of the song. Sing the songs title (for example) four times over a simple chord progression that differs from the verse in some way.

I don't go in for formula's; I have a basic structure in mind and thats it. If a hook comes naturally-great, but I don't try and make a song something it's not. Doesn't mean I don't try to improve a song in it's own way.
 
Try writing the hook first, then write the verses to support the hook. Study songs you like and figure out why the hook works in the song. You can't reel 'em in if you can't set the hook!
 
Buffalo Bob speaketh the truth....write the hook or chorus first....it is the meat of the song and deserves top attention....it also helps to have it written first so that when you are writing the verses, you know which direction it needs to go to lead right into it....if you start off writing a verse without knowing the hook, its kinda like wandering aimlessly thru a grocery store trying to find the aisle that the jello is on....eventually youll find it, but by then youve lost interest.....
 
So what they are saying is create a cheap, gimmickly little hook and then things can only get worse, think to yourself the verse must be shit, don't want to take away from the hook. In fact if they get better you'll have defeated the purpose of writing a good hook first.
 
Krystof,

i say enuff stupid things on this BBS that I dont need you saying stupid stuff for me...thank you....while I agree with you there is no formula for writing catchy hooks, i never once advised to go for "cheap" or "gimmicky"....

Now, if you are such the expert songwriter, lets spare the arguments here and take it to the mp3 mixing clinic....post yours and ill post mine....
 
Veddy hostile, chappy! If by "cheap" or "Gimicky" you mean "Catchy", I plead guilty. I've spent my entire adult life trying to write "catchy" hooks. I know it offends your sensibilities, but this is a business, and catchy sells. The art is making it good AND "catchy". Just ask Jimmy Webb.
And Gidge - I can't wait for these MP3's! A good old-fashioned duel.......... I'll hold your coat.


Bob
 
....need an example

to follow this thread...aside from product commercials, what exactly would a cheap gimmicky hook look like? If it works, then its the one......I personally like to use the "hook" to summarize, upfront, what it is I am trying to say, before I start the story.

my bbs motto: I'm sure my songs suck (but I enjoy them)...so take it for what its worth.
 
..oh yeah...

make sure you use the new "round" hooks that set themselves and prevent gut-hooks, especially if you don't eat what you catch.
 
Gidge,
Looks like I touched a nerve.

You can buy the album just like everyone else; then you'll have payed and hence earned your right to critisize my musical abilities (and spelling for that matter).

As for being an expert songwriter; I don't think I stated that. I may indeed be but that's for others to decide.

Come over to England and I'll show you a nice left hook if you want.

I wonder how long it'll take for a reply to that? I'm gonna test you. If you don't reply to this I'll assume you've controlled your anger; well done.
 
Krystof my friend,

Please dont think youve touched one of my nerves.....and Im far from angry....If I let every pompous ass like you rattle my cage id be in big trouble....as far as the left hook, I think Ill pass as Im a non-violent person and wouldnt even consider putting my foot up your fucking ass....I thought you British guys were too sophisticated for street brawls....a simple request of a mp3 post and you threaten violence and you call me angry?...look in the mirror if you wanna see anger,my friend......

let me know where I can buy that album and Ill gladly get a copy....

and as far as testing me, if responding means I failed your little pansie-ass test, then oh well.....
 
Hi Gidge,
I'm Glad weve ended this little dispute amicably. I have nor the time nor inclination to waste my time making this a 100 thread argument; for all the time I spend messin' around here I could have written a few more great hooks.

"pompous ass, my foot up your fucking ass, pansie-ass test", I disagree; I think you could do quite well in a street brawl yourself you "non-violent person".

As for the "I thought you British guys were too sophisticated for street brawls"; there the ones who live down south, I live up north (the north hate the south and vias-versa. There the sophisticated cunts with the posh accents; were all jealous/envious of how much money they have so we want to lick there ass's).

If all goes well I'll have my debut album out within a year, it's looking promissing; I would like to think that if you could you would obtain a copy; it may even inspire you to write a few decent hooks.
 
Is this "album" going to be released on Krystof Records? Seems to me if you had the stones you wouldn't back down, Shakespeare! And Gidge, I respect your non-violence, and willingness to let your peers judge the MP3's.
It's no wonder the Empire collapsed- all talk, no action.


Bob
 
As soon as you let one argument go another fuckin' yank starts it up again. As far as the mp3's go I really haven't a fuckin clue how to do 'em, upload 'em that is. I use the computer to go on this forum, look at reviews on equipment and that's about it. I'd prefer to spend my time playing guitar and writing songs newbie. That also goes for pointless arguments that are a waste of my time.

And just remember what fuckin' language you speek; or attempt to.
 
I may be a "newbie" on this forum, but I've played New York, Philadelphia, L.A., Boston, Chicago and Miami for the last thirty years. I'll match my credentials with your's anyday. And as for being a "yank", if it wasn't for us "yanks" you lot would all be doing a goose-step right now.
And just for the record, YOU were the one who injected the bad vibes into this thread, not I.
To quote an old Hebrew saying:
"May you have an interesting life."


Bob
 
Bad vibes hey,
I offered my opinion only. I gave my view on the previous posts at that time in order to help the person who initially asked a question. That that was taken out of context or was taken as a negative vibe; that's not my problem. It may be my problem if I have the wrong opinion (not that there is such as thing).

I'm sure you yourslef are a very competent musician and I never stated otherwise; there was no need however for yourself to try and take a dig at me, my initial argument was with gidge.

Let that be the end of this; lets address the question, .in my opinion:

A hook can turn a song into easy listening from the audience.
A hook may also take away from a song as it is usually the simplest part.
It also can embellish a song as it gives it more substance.

Dead moon boy-your not being able to come up with great hooks doesn't take away from being a good songwriter; the reverse may be true.

It may be a good idea to re-visit the song sometime after it was written so you have a new perspective. Think simply, hook are catchy as they are blunt and simple, the bit that stands out in a song (and yes they can also be very intricate and well thought out). The problem is that most of the simple melodic ideas that create such easy listening were/have been previously used in songs. By around the end of the beatles there has been little else that is so simple and not a variation in some way of something that has gone before. (my opinion).

A hook remember can be in the form of lyric
the introduction of a new progression
a new instrument
effect
etc
etc

And yes in my opinion they are gimmicky some what when you intentionally write a hook as opposed to it coming naturally.in my opinion
 
Fair enough, Krystof. No hard feelings. If you're ever in Miami look me up and we'll trade hooks over shrimp and rum-runners!


Bob
 
The irony is that we (me gidge and yourself) could probably come up with some decent songs if we were shoved into a studio I guess.

Oh well...........................
Later,
Krystof.
 
Boy, this thread was like a scripted soap, very exiting, and with a great story-line, action, drama, a little comedy, exciting till the end, then a great finish with the 'Group Hug' thing,
I give it 5 stars , like a good book I just couldn;t put down.......:cool:
 
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