Okay, you songwriters...feedback

which song?

one?

five?

ten?

fifteen?

all seventeen? :eek:

It would help if you picked one to focus on....ya know?

later,
Joe
 
Note that it's just songs I wrote, not my memoirs or diaries, so don't worry I won't personalize any of your comments as insults on my personal life or experience.

So as not to waste anyone's time, here's a sypnosis of the style / gist of each song, skip those you don't care to listen to style-wise

Misery - angryish new-wave bossa nova
Is It Over Now - slow, moody, church-hall
The Passenger - hip-hop/r&b backbeat
Catch-22 - Motown + Merseybeat
Goodbye for Now - countryesque pop
Refugee - blues/r&b
Different - straight-ahead hard rock
Stranded - reggae-ish
A Blind Faith - acoustic guitar + vocals only
When World Collide - middle eastern pop
A Naked Disguise - 70s rock + r&b
Longest Ceremony - ska
Shadow Boxing - 70s rock
Joanne - vaudeville acoustic
Shiver - cheesy radio rock
Take Me Away - Brit-Smiths depressing
Rangoon - political pop

I know that its only opinions, and you may not be able to comment on certain types of styles you don't like (i.e. r&b).
 
Listened to a few...

Shiver...like this one. Only thing I would do is repeat shiver rather than use quiver.

Is it Over Now. Love the guitar...

Stranded...nice organ. Catchy, interesting take/feel for a song about...someone in a coma?

Thanks!
 
OK I'm gunna do a full blown critique for ya. I got lots of time and I like pretty much all genres of music (except RAP)... One inportant thing though: I'm going to critique this as a listener, and not as a writer... I'll be basing it all on what I like to hear, not what I like to write :) Also, I'm gunna write comments as I listen... here goes...

Misery: I like it. It kinda has a little bit of a 60's feel to it. I like the lyrics *grin* -- I really really like the change in the music when you get to "Seeping, sabotaging, ...sucking parasite?" - Nice almost classic ending. Maybe needs a little work on the vocal track to clear it up a bit. Some of the words are hard to follow without the lyric sheet, but I'm sure that it could very well be due to my cheap ass headphones. Hehehe


It's Over Now: Nice intro... I like the tremolo effect on the guitar (always liked that effect). Ok right after the first chorus I half expected some sort of drum fill/intro. I think it could use some drums... nothing too harsh. By the third chorus it starts to feel like it's missing something... not so much in need of more instrumentation as it needs a change... it feels very repetative... other than that it sounds good... I like the mix... not muddy at all; nice clear vocals.


The Passenger: Again, I like the guitar... nice choice for drum line. And the short keybord hits fill it in real nicely. Nice bass line. I like it when the bass guitar get to do a little acrobatic work... OK I don't hear the acoustic guitar anymore... also it seems a little barren in the musical "pauses" between verses... maybe bring back a little guitar work to fill that out? I like the way you used the changes "lost; angry' & lonely" passenger for each verse... the ending felt a little abrupt... Again the vocals were nice and clear.


Catch 22: Nice... for some reasons "The Beatles" come to mind. It would sound so cool if the vocals could be done in theur style. I like the lyrics. Suggestion: right before or after the guitar solo (which was nicely done by the way) maybe add some kind of musical/vocal bridge... something to mix it up a bit. Nice clear vocals and again. I can appreciate the lyrics :)


Goodbye For Now: OK I really like this one... I can hear it being sung by Simon & Garfunkle... Some 2 part harmony at certain points would sount REAL cool like : "That very first day I met you
Can’t believe I forgot your name" .... I would really put some more serious work into this one... It sounds real good, but I could see this one getting some air time if it were worked up and remastered. I also like the ending...


Refugee: Nice work on this one!! I really like the overall feel. And I love the lyrics. This is one of those tunes you'll find yourself humming while yer working etc... Again... I could see this one getting air time... I especially like the way you build on the music as the song progresses. Maybe consider some background vocals... (I can hear a small chorus of maybe 2-3 women joining in at the bold part of the next phrase: For tonight's tonight's soiree -- this one has a LOT of potential. Nice ending. I'd actually change nothing of the overall song... just add some well placed background (female) vocals and I would need a towel :) hehehe


Different: I like the overall musical arrangement. However because of the rock and roll feel of the music I think the vocals need to be a little bit more harsh ... Alex Petty comes to mind... if you haven't heard his work check out www.drumfish.com You'll see what I mean by his singing style. (Specifically listen to Shame ) Other than that I like it much!


Stranded: Alright... nice reggae feel. Once again: backgraound vocals needed during the chorus... and the vocals need to have a more reggae feel... they don't sound "ethnic" enough. I can see this one getting some airtime with the right vocal tracks... I like it. Not as much as the others, but it's pretty cool. :) And the theme for the lyrics is cute :)


A Blind Faith: like the Acoustic guitar intro... And the vocals come in nicely. I like the musical change at the chorus. Don't put any background vocals in this one... definitely has a "one man show" feel as far as vocals go. OK right after the four line verse that starts off: "Waiting for our request to play" ... it feels like a nice buildup for a short and sweet guitar solo... then into the chorus... Other than that I really like it. I especially like the lyrics. It sounds like a real nice "filler" song for an album. That's not a bad thingh though... it remids me of some of the CDs I bought and listened to and ended up liking the tunes that DIDN'T get the air time... so definitely keep it in your catalog.


When Worlds Collide: Nice intro... sweet sounding guitar... woah... wasn't expecting the sudden change when the drums came in but I love it. I like the kettle drums in the chorus... the panning effect is nice. Lyrics are good. Maybe consider some well placed background vocals. And also at the first line of the chorus: "When worlds collide" - would sound cool if the tail end of that line were saturated with reverb and faded off... I suck at explaining the effect I mean, but I can hear it in my head... This one could go either way: air time or filler... definitely worth investing tweak time into... but don't mess with the music... i like it just the way it is... especially the strings. :) Cool ending... again, in my head just as the music ends I can hear it (just the music) doing a quick stop and short reverse/quick fade while the vocals stand as they are...


A Naked Disguise: Jazzy... I like it. I really like what you're trying to do with the chorus... it needs a little tweaking and it overpowers the vocals a little, but I can hear where you're going with it and I think it really can work with a little tweaking. OK I can definitely see myself tappin on the stearing wheel and bouncing in my seat as I cruise in my car to this tune. I could see it getting air time. Again... don't bother with background vocals. Nicely done ending. Although to be perfectly honest I half expevted it to fade out. But either way can work. You ended it nicely.


Longest Ceremony: Ok I was a little confused with the intro as to what the actual rhythm was supposed to be until the vocals came in... Over all feel is not too bad... I think I can hear where you're going with it, but it needs something... Lyrically and vocally it's good, but musically it sounds almost empty... needs something to fill it out a bit. I have no idea how to explain what it is I'm hearing in my head... Suffice it to say it has lots of potential, but needs more studio time... The pause between the last two repetitions of the chorus seemed a bit long... nice simple ending. It's worth putting more work into.


Shadow Boxing: I like the beat and overall feel... OK the chorus could go either way: with or without background vocals... I lean more towards with. It has a late 70's early 80's feel about it. I like the way you killed all the music except the guitar at the end... I could see this one getting air time... needs very little tweaking...


Joanne: Has a Beatles feel about it. Or maybe Simon & Garfunkle... OK I really like the lyrics... and I DEFINITELY can hear background vocals in the chorus... but male, not female. Oh yeah... definitely! A nice 2 part harmony on the chorus would really do it justice! I can see air time with this one too... I love it.


Shiver: Again I feel a little Beatles there... Nice chorus... would sound cool with some harmony background vocals there... Again... air time quality. (keep in mind when I say air time on these, I'm refering to after it's tweaked and refined...) I like the guitar solo... however it "stands out" too much ... it needs to blend in a little more. It's too distinct ... but good... I like the tonal quality of the lead guitar. Someone in the Mixing/Mastering section might be able to give you some idea how to blend it in a little more. And I like the vocal-only ending... nice...


Take Me Away: I like the percussion work... and the way you worked the guitar and keybords in together. Nice change-over in music at the chorus... Over all i like it alot. Nice Lyrics. The vocal style kinda makes me think of James Taylor during the verses and I can't place the style of the chorus... the artist's name is on the tip of my tongue, but far far away from my brain :p -- Nice ending. Again... could either end up with air time or as filler material.


Rangoon: OK definitely feels like either a Beatles tune... with a lot of Electric Light Orchestra inluence. (And i like ELO - the intro reminds me of ELO's "Sweet Is The Night" from their "Out Of The Blue" album (One of my favorite songs BTW). I like it. Oh yeah... just caught the chorus and I definitely hear a little ELO in there... Now if you could convince 3 other guys to castrate themselves to hit the real high notes for harmony it could definitely pass for an ELO style tune :) hehehe -- I really really like this one.


OK to sum up:

Lyrics: I like what your doing... keep it up.

Vocals: For some of the songs (like Rangoon) your voice is well suited. For others (like Different) I would consider passing the job to someone with a rougher voice (Like Alex Petty) And maybe move yourself to backing vocals on those tunes.

Music: I really like where you're going with it overall. Some I like better than others for different reasons, but objectively I can appreciate the direction you're heading. Some of the songs need a little work in various areas. Others need very little if any. (Some of the needed tweaks could be fixed no doubt at a mastering house.)

Final comments: I'm not sure if your goal is to be a performer or merely a writer. I think you have a lot of potential as both. You're voice in some of the songs sounds a little shaky and at times falls to the flat end of the note... but you definitely have a lot of potential. (Yet in other songs - like Rangoon - your voice fits idealy) As a writer, your style seems to show a lot of openness and 'honesty'. I like that as I think overuse of metaphores is one of the problems with the music of today. through the transition of each piece I can see your style evolving in a positive direction. Keep up the good work and always strive to make it better. There's no such thing as perfection, but it's no crime to try and achieve it. ;)

P.S. - Feel free to PM me when you get Tunnel Trap finished... I'm looking forward to hearing it.


- Tanlith -
 
MS3 said:
Listened to a few...

Stranded...nice organ. Catchy, interesting take/feel for a song about...someone in a coma?

Thanks!

Thanks for the comments. The idea for Stranded came about when I was stuck in line for an eternity at the DMV. I loved The Smiths "Girlfriend in a Coma" and wanted to write something in that spirit or tone.
 
tanlith, thanks for listening! I'm a huge Beatles fan and grew up listening to Paul Simon / Simon & Garfunkel, so it kind of seeps into my writing - perhaps a little dated stylistically, but oh well. Kind of country too, but I guess growing up in Alberta it's a part of you whether you like it or not. I've got enough comments so far on adding background vox to a lot of the tracks, and something I'm going to seriously take a stab at adding. The most I did so far for vox was doubling on Misery and Passenger.

I'm writing and recording for now, and play open mics when I can. I'm planning on making a serious go at it though I hope I'm not being a Don Quixote!
 
Greenshoe said:
tanlith, thanks for listening! I'm a huge Beatles fan and grew up listening to Paul Simon / Simon & Garfunkel, so it kind of seeps into my writing - perhaps a little dated stylistically, but oh well. Kind of country too, but I guess growing up in Alberta it's a part of you whether you like it or not. I've got enough comments so far on adding background vox to a lot of the tracks, and something I'm going to seriously take a stab at adding. The most I did so far for vox was doubling on Misery and Passenger.

I'm writing and recording for now, and play open mics when I can. I'm planning on making a serious go at it though I hope I'm not being a Don Quixote!

Keep at it my fellow Canadian! (I'm from Windsor Ontario).

I was listening again to some of the tracks I like best and noticed something. In certain places your voice sounds weak (as in timid - or border-line mic shy). It leads me to believe that you either sing close to the Mic and are afrade of overpowering it (maybe due to clipping you see on the meters) or you live in a situation (like me - an appartment in my case) that doesn't allow you to really belt out the vocals.

If it's the first problem then maybe it's your Mic? When I used to record we used a real good condencer Mic and I was about 2-2.5 feet away from it when I sang. I think it was a Newman (I wasn't techie back then , our drummer was and he had a nice Mic set...)

Maybe try doing a 2-up 2-down with the vocal track?

Record 3 vocal tracks seperately.

One normal, 1 at +2db and one at -2db. From there you can choose which sounds best; mix in from each of the 3 tracks the best sounding takes and then use some compression to limit it.

That should leave you free to really sing out. On the other hand, if it's the second problem (your living arrangements don't allow for loud noise) then save those pennies and take your master to a studio... I like the lyrics, I like where you're going with the vocals, but they definitely need to be stronger. In some places it sounds almost like a lack of confidence; like you're unsure of yourself.

- Tanlith -
 
you're bang on about the vocal situation.

i live in an apartment with an 80 year old lady directly below where i record. i can be timid at times singing, but never really an issue in a live situation. also, my room is about 10x10 where my noisy mac is, so i've learned to sing closer to the mic (around 6 inches or so) and paranoid about clipping as well. i track with very very light compression going in (RNC) through a TLM-103, which while expensive, i'm finding less than ideal for my voice. in any case, when i want to take some of thsi stuff further, i'm going to a studio to re-track/remix, esp. vocals.
 
Well I assume you posted this looking for honest criticism, which is necessary to grow as an artist. I have read through the other critiques, and won't be as detailed as some have been. I did listen to over half of the songs you posted, so I have enough evidence to support my observations...

First of all, some of the music you wrote was really great...great guitar stuff, and good song composition My real criticism lies in the lyrics, singing, and rhythm of the singing.

First of all, if you're serious about this, voice lessons can only help you (assuming you haven't had any).

Secondly, the timing of how you sing the words; the rhythm, or cadence, or whatever, doesn't seem to flow in a lot of places. I don't know how specifically you could improve on this...perhaps collaboration with another singer.

Finally, the lyrics themselves could use work...the number of syllables you're trying to squeeze into any given verse or chorus may not fit, which contributes to problem #2 that I outlined.

I apologize if this comes across harsh. It's just my opinion, and everybody has one.

Cheers,
 
bsanfordnyc,

thanks for the feedback. i'm not sure what you mean by being harsh though. guess its hard to tell on an anon forum how someone will take it. i take critiques and compliments in stride - whether here on this forum or elsewhere, i've received comments all over the place. while i've played multiple instruments for most of my life, i've only started songwriting and singing lead in the last year and a half so like anything it's just working at it and hoping it improves over time. either way, i love doing it.

by making a serious go at it, i'm hoping to be patient :-) whether it's music or acting, it's going to be a ten-year process before any serious breaks happen, judging from various musicians and actors bios.

thanks for listening
 
Greenshoe said:
you're bang on about the vocal situation.

i live in an apartment with an 80 year old lady directly below where i record. i can be timid at times singing, but never really an issue in a live situation. also, my room is about 10x10 where my noisy mac is, so i've learned to sing closer to the mic (around 6 inches or so) and paranoid about clipping as well. i track with very very light compression going in (RNC) through a TLM-103, which while expensive, i'm finding less than ideal for my voice. in any case, when i want to take some of thsi stuff further, i'm going to a studio to re-track/remix, esp. vocals.


Thought so! :D

OK a couple ideas: I had the same problem with my PC (Making too much noise - you got a Mac? Lucky dog! :p - I kinda have to have a PC cause I'm a network engineer by trade and therefore have to conform to PC HELL) So here's what I did about the noise:

I got my hands on a 4"x4" square fan (Exact same type as inside you're computer's Power Supply only a bit bigger). Got mine at Radio Shack and I made sure they let me fire it up so I could check for noise... it was a lot quieter than my PC was. Then I build a small wooden cabinate out of 1/2" particle board (around $8.00) and lined it inside completely with acoustic foam (Top; sides; bottom front door and back) Now on MY PC tower, there's 4 small rubber "feet" - if you remove those you're left with 4 holes that you can make "stilts" to fit using 3" Bolts and 4 Nuts each. This will keep the unit from actually sitting directly on the foam. Mount the fan in the INSIDE of the unit to cover the hole... You know what? I'm just gunna go find the design sheet I made and post it here... a lot easier than explaining it all... :p

Suffice it to say, my PC stays on 24/7 and you can't even hear it when you're in the room. And the cabinate looks kinda nice since I painted it and mounted a couple coffee holders on the top. -- Keeps my drinks in a save non spill area away from all my equipment yet still an arms length away! :)

As far as the lady below, is she friendly? or one of those crusty/crabby types? If she's approchable, maybe you could just tell her what you're doing, let here hear none of your better tunes (like Rangoon) and see if you can work out some sort of time frame you can work uninhibited. I too live in an appartment. I got a corner unit next to the stairwell so all I have to worry about is above and below. The guy below is deaf (literally) and the guy above and I discussed what I was doing and he was cool about it. Every week he drops a copy of his work schedule in my mail box so I know when it's safe to do my thing. He made me promiss that if I ever release and go big he gets a copy of all my CDs signed... small price to pay :)

One more question: What are you using for a mic?

- Tanlith -
 
I gues I'm listening to wave files since it's coming straight from your web page? Not much breakage in the stream. Nice format for the page. As far as the tunes, I'm still listening :)
 
This is just me, but I can't deal with prosody that's off. So I kinda can't listen to the first one, Misery. Second one is good so far. Clear recordings, up front vocal, good title placement, more later...
 
tanlith,

thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to move the tower into the closet, which will mean some rearranging, and see if that works. If not, i'll try your cabinet approach.

The lady downstairs is a bit crabby. She's old, but not deaf unfortuately...now that would be a sweet setup! Living in a building full of deaf people.
 
junplugged, I converted the mp3 files into .swf flash file, hence the streaming. Something I wanted to try.

I hear you on the song Misery. I was a bit verbose on that one, and wanted to see whether I could get away with it, but it kind of jumbled up the words as you said.
 
Greenshoe said:
junplugged, I converted the mp3 files into .swf flash file, hence the streaming. Something I wanted to try.

I hear you on the song Misery. I was a bit verbose on that one, and wanted to see whether I could get away with it, but it kind of jumbled up the words as you said.


Cool idea... one question though,:

I tried something similer, but mine load up completely before playing... how do I get it to stream?

- Tanlith -
 
tanlith said:
Cool idea... one question though,:

I tried something similer, but mine load up completely before playing... how do I get it to stream?

- Tanlith -

Select just the audio file, and change the sync from "Event" to "Stream" (on a Mac the options are in the Sound panel). Another thing to do is add some empty frames (depending on the frame rate you're using) equivalent to around 4-5 sec in the beginning before the audio file. These empty frames act as a buffer at the start of the stream so that when its online, the first few seconds of the audio file doesn't get squashed/truncated.
 
I like what I've heard so far, I'll listen more later. Did you put it all up at one time? Is this a prject you've been working on for a while? I figure a while since you ahve many songs up, it takes me long time to write and edit and like that many originals.
 
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