All sold out!!

[Krystof01]

Many artists/bands choose to sell out (go commercial-not for the music etc.). What is your opinion towards this-any bands to shame, would you consider selling-out to get the money then fall back to the music, who do you respect for staying all for the music, etc, etc-general discussion I guess.

[foo]

Selling out?

By your definition, as soon as you hire a 'name' producer, you've sold out.

It's your basic artist's dilemma, I suppose. I want my work heard by as many people as possible, but I still want to retain creative control. Very difficult when the record company are putting up $X zillion and insist upon 'insert name of hot producer here' doing the record.

The producer's job is to make the songs as marketable as possible. Sometimes that means making them appealing to the 'indie crowd' to match the 'we're not part of the corporate music machine vibe' as opposed to the top-40 crowd/vibe.

As Frank Zappa once said:
'Everyone in this room is wearing a uniform, and that includes me'

So when Courtney Love's new CD sells zillions to the great unwashed, maybe it was produced to do exactly that. Is that selling out?

You tell me.

foo

[Salabim]

i think that the term 'selling out' can mean different things to diferent people...

i think that you are selling yourself out when your CDs are being bought by people who wouldnt usually buy your music but because it is in the charts or is produced by someone special, they do...

i agree with foo though, everyone does want their work to be heard by as many people as possible, and making a few bucks out of it doesnt hurt either, but i draw the line when your music starts to change to please the new crowd...

Tim

[Krystof01]

Well to expand this-some musicians are owned by the public in a way, they determine what they are, what image they should have and there are rules attached. On the other hand someone like Neil Young who creates music for the music does it on his own terms, he has the respect and is not really driven to do some things and not others.

This is subjective of course, but Neil Young goes into a studio and produces an album he chooses, other artists albums will not be released unless they are commercial, ie chart stuff that after hearing 10-20 times you never want to hear again-they are owned by the record companies and the people who buy the records determine if they stay afloat in the industry, to an extent.

I think it has it's roots in talent and the image sought after.

[tdukex]

Anybody who approaches this business, or any other business, and doesn't keep their own best interest in mind, is selling themselves out.

Some people are in it for the money.
Some people are in it for the glory.
Some people are in it for self expression.

Some people are in it for the pussy.

If you are getting what you want out of it, who cares what anybody else thinks? Don't sell yourself out.

BTW, Neil Young has managed to have it all, and I do not believe he has ever sold himself out.

[tdukex]

The dreaded double post!

[Wallycleaver]

wally's you might be a sell out if.....
...you play in a band that has changed their genre 3 or more times
...when in the studio you use the words "punchy" and "warm" to describe the sound you want.
...you choose a guitar (or any instrument) on purely visual effect
...you change your hair style to look like the singer in your favorite band. (I know someone here had the flock of seagulls doo at one point)
There is my short list of sell outs

[Prophet_81]

I disagree that hiring a producer or a name producer means "selling out", as Foo suggested.

On the subject of production, I have a lot of ideas. I'm hoping that none of you believe that the introduction of a producer means "selling out". A producer doesn't simply make the music marketable. I'm mean, a musician or a group can and have been signed because they have potential. Honestly, there is a huge bunch of bands that suck out there. The idea is that these musicians or groups have ability and ideas, but are inexperienced when it comes to organizing a song. We all know the countless number of bands out there that are really trying hard to "get noticed" and we also know the reasons why they won't anytime soon....

They can't play well...

They can't write well...

They can play and can't really write...

They have a virtuoso in the group that is basically the leg on which they stand...

The list goes on. Some of us recording engineers consider ourselves to be producers. Sometimes we have to take that job for the good of the product. For some musicians, someone has to be there to say, "let's try doing this...". Or "there's something clashing here..." "You know, this part is becoming monotonous in the song..."

You all know what I'm saying.

I also think that the industry is looking for younger talents these days. Look what happened to Vanilla Ice. He was a young, punk kid that got caught up in the scene and now he resents it all. I think that too many young people get on the scene and are not developed as writers and musicians. That's where the producer comes in... Face it, if producers weren't involved, many of our favorite albums would probably suck.

I think it can be a good experience for any musician to work with a producer. You pick up a lot of stuff. You learn how to better write your songs.

I have a friend who was signed a couple of years ago and on the first album he wrote, they raped him. It's true... I don't think it was because they couldn't handle "the art" in his recordings. I believe they probably just weren't very hot. I've heard the stuff that comes out of his basement. It needs some production sometimes. On his second album, he was allowed to self-produce the last, like, four of eleven songs on the record. Eventually, you gain the right to do whatever the hell you want. I guess if one plays by the rules long enough, one gets to make the rules.

Also, the producer isn't always some stranger that is just sent for by the company. Sometimes it's just a friend who's sitting in and helping coordinate.

(Sorry about the novel)

[sonnylarsen]

The real quetion is, who is in control of the music. If you give in to the machine and your record company give your project to some hot producer so that the record will turn a big profit, you've sold out. It is no longer your music, your expression.
I do not think that having a "hot" producer means you've sold out. Producers have varying degrees of control on various projects, and some of them are very good at what they do and they will challenge artists to stretch and grow and conider their work.
Basically, the big pop boy bands and young divas and etc. are not sell outs. They are doing exactly what they wanted to do in the first place, and the only art that they produce is with their voices. A true sell-out is a band or artist who create their music solely for the purpose of acheiving some other end(money, fame, etc.) and have lost the idea of creating beautiful art. . .

[Hano]

Every record, tape or CD that ever got sold is a commercial product. Whatever you state about it.

I remember when I was younger, my friends who fell for Led Zeppelin would gladly murder you, if you stated that Led Zeppelin was a commercial product. Their reason for such observation, was that Led Z. did not bring out any singles(45 Tours) , but only LP's. The only reason Led Zep. has ever recorded anything, was to sell it.

That statement also goes for every so-called non-commercial music. You can usually observe it as a product (it is) with some basic quality's missing to be accepted to a bigger public.

I am not saying that every hit is a wonder of creative craftman ship. It usually takes "best" of both worlds.