What to do here? Another basement Studio with limits.

ThaArtist

New member
Hello everyone! I have a space I need your help with! The house/area is not mine (Father's house). The money is not mine. The money is limited. I'm only purchasing stuff for this space that I can take out of there when I need too such as acoustic panels etc.

Below are some pictures and my rough diagram of his existing basement and the area he will let us use.

Please know I can't make this place perfect. I'm trying to use what I have, build some walls and make it the best that we can! I realize alot of people might say, oh just forget it... but PLEASE! Help me.

Sorry for the cellphone pics, I didn't have my camera that day.

From outside of the room by the laundry area looking in.
OutsidelookinginMedium.jpg


Walking in the room looking towards the back right of the room. The wood beam on top is actually a fake beam of sorts covering hot and cold pipes. There is like 8-10 inches of space to make a wall on the side of it if need be so it will match up to the existing wall. If you can see theres a foot and a half about of space by the dancing people.
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Walking into the room looking left angle.
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From the other end of the room looking back.
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Another.
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A pretty true to life drawing of the entire basement.
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THE AREA IN QUESTION.

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My Father initially said we could build a booth with a window and do it right in the corner with the people with their arms raised with green. Well I think the control room should probably have a room also. Unless you think I could put a desk/ workstation on the side with the window and get better sound control maybe with some free standing acoustic panels behind and sides/walls? Leaving the area open? Only down side is it would be nice to make a cheap craigslist donated type bathroom down there too. I think theres a closed sewer pipe in that corner too!

My only idea. I know square walls are not idea for most decent sized control rooms. Well I got a small room and only can do a square pretty much being easy and cost efficient?


Now heres what we're working with. Existing drop ceiling with insulation batts from Johns Manville. I was initially told they were sound control batts but I'm not so sure so I need to check. Even though if they are I doubt they are that good? Also I know he stopped like a 6 to 10 inches from the drop ceiling lights. What to do about that? I cant take the insulation out and redo it. We need to keep it. Atleast it does something. If them acoustic drop ceiling panels might be an option eventually.

As for the walls, what to do about the brick wall? We really dont have room to build on it. I think we need to leave it brick. I can add a sheet of drywall to the existing drywall and double hang the other drywall but space is a concern. I dont think we should go any smaller then 2x4 studs, do you? Also what to do about insulating the walls? ANd should we use 3/4 in. drywall and double up on it? Also should we make it so they are staggered )so the seems dont line up)or does it really matter? Plus should we mud the first layer? After that what about treating the space taking in consideration that the more space to move the better! Also any ideas on air conditioning? I can add a unit in the booth/super small band room lol. Right now where we record gets sooooooooo hot with just 4 people. and its just as small. I also think that putting two pieces of glass on both sides of the wall connecting the control room and booth with the glass on an angle in each room wide at the top and skinner at the bottom. Ive seen this done and I guess its for deflection? (where to get it and what would be best?) I think that covers everything.

With my limitations and considering a no budget (find money as we go) what do you think would be best and where should money be spent first to last?

I appreciate your help so much guys and gals (if any!)
 
1. Clean out all the crap you don't need.

2. You don't need a control room, it will be a waste of space, time, money and effort. One good sized space will be your best bet.
You will have enough trouble working with one space acoustically and mechanically/electrically - and it will not be a large space when you are done.
Having a control room is for people that have more space and a larger budget.

3. You need to learn about acoustic absorption; if you don't have much of a budget, there is almost nothing you can do regarding soundproofing.
Having to work around existing structure and mechanical spaces will severely limit the effectiveness of soundproofing, especially when you are tight on cash.
Make the largest space you can get away with, treat it appropriately and work around noise issues (Play noisy things when other people are gone from the house).

4. It seems you may have around an 11 X 20 space? That is not too terrible.
Spend some time here and read about Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass - it's your friend; it will let you optimize your space to sound halfway decent without bankrupting you. Crafting your own absorption panels is an efficient use of money and will give you some pride of ownership.

5. Craigslist is your friend. If you have sufficient time, you can put together a half decent signal chain from second/third hand merchandise. You should be able to come at well under $100 a channel if you do your research and can snipe the good things as they appear.

Cheers
Chris
 
I appreciate the response. I'm not necessarily new to this stuff like I said Ive read alot of stuff on here. I have a little home studio already and have all my equipment for now.

The reason I wanted to make a booth is everyone I record needs like 5 to 6 takes and its annoying cutting my speakers on and off all the time. Plus I can isolate them from me. I may be drinking a soda, eating some food, making noise while they are trying their 100 takes. Make sense? I'm a busy person and would like the convenience even if its not an ideal spot to separate them from me. I don't record bands. I record guitarists mostly, singers, rappers, etc. So it would server as an oversides vocal booth basically.

What do you think of that? and with enough bass traps and sound control cant we get some pretty decent sound control in a 5x 8-10' space?
 
Well ok then, if you are never going to be doing more than one person, then two rooms might be an ok thing for you.
If you are intent on monitoring them from the control room on your monitors, then you obviously you will have to attempt to soundproof the booth.

Even for a small booth, with a two leaf system and isolated studs, dual doors and a double window and some sort of provision for AC, I can't imagine this coming in under $800 even if the labor is free.

I'd put the booth in the corner of the basement, and the control room outside of it. A small booth can be useful, but it is going to have to be dead acoustically imho. You will likely need quite a bit of absorption - the entire ceiling, and probably most of three walls.
I'd drop all the extra spaces - if you are trying to mix in the control room you are going to have tough time if the space is tiny.
best of luck,
C>
 
Ouch. Thanks! Would there be any value in hanging resilient channel on the cinder blocks and doubling up dry wall from there to save space? Also theres not much I can do about the drop ceiling. I'm definitely not doing double walls and doors thats rediculous for the amount of space I have to work with and the funds!

It's all good. I think I pretty much know what I can do and what kind of sound I can get. Small mixing room means alot of bass traps will be needed. I'm not creating master pieces here I'm just trying to move forward and stay involved with the art I love so much within the means I have available.

Its better to do something then nothing because in the end it's a lesson learned. Do I wish I had 100k for a studio? Yes... but the reality is I have nothing.

So if anyone is willing, and I hope you are, help me make decisions on what you think would be best to do working with an existing space to get the best sound possible with a very small budget.

What if I did walls of 2x2's so 2" thick mineral wool can fit in between the wall framing and then hung resilient channel and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on the new walls I build? It would help more then just building plain walls right?

I realize what I'm asking I've never seen anyone attempt to help anyone do, but comon?! I have a virtually 0 budget so I'm just coming up with funds as I can. Probably have enough to just frame the walls at first.

Anyone?
 
Cinder Block is as good as you are going to get.
No point in covering it up, waste of effort/treasure.

Go to the library and try to find some of Rod Gervais books and thoroughly understand the content of Ethan Winers website.

One thing you can certainly do for free is download and learn to use Google Sketch Up. You can model your entire studio, down to the studs and pieces of drywall and traps you are going to put in, and put it up for criticism here.
Hastily jotting things down on paper is no substitute for proper plans.
Do it right and you will know exactly how much material you are going to have to buy. You will also avoid the extremely costly mistake of redoing something. It is somewhere between 10 and 15 times cheaper to make your mistakes in the planning stages, than to correct it after-the-fact.

If you're a young guy, learning software should come easy to you. I'm an old dog and while I at one time was pretty good at 3D modeling, the software has come so far in the last 15 years it is scary. I have been able to make good use of Sketch Up in just about five serious hours at it. Your time (at this point in your life) is probably the most affordable resource you have.
Don't spend a penny on materials until you have a decent 3D model.
I am currently moving into a new space and I will have it completely laid out, and know where everything is going before I ever lift anything besides a mouse.
Cheers
C>
 
Have you seen these?
http://www.auralex.com/category_max-wall/category_max-wall.asp
Being a DIY guy, I can easily see creating/building something similar using 4-inch thick Owens Corning 703 compressed fiberglass panels...........
Maybe some moveable/portable 6-8 ft tall "gobos" to separate you and musician?
The end results might not be perfect but I'm sure it would work and you could take them with you when you leave.
One of these might be a good thing as well.
http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html
http://www.seelectronics.com/PSRF.html
 
Have you seen these?
http://www.auralex.com/category_max-wall/category_max-wall.asp
Being a DIY guy, I can easily see creating/building something similar using 4-inch thick Owens Corning 703 compressed fiberglass panels...........
Maybe some moveable/portable 6-8 ft tall "gobos" to separate you and musician?
The end results might not be perfect but I'm sure it would work and you could take them with you when you leave.
One of these might be a good thing as well.
http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html
http://www.seelectronics.com/PSRF.html

Has anyone found a cheaper alternative to that SE Elect stuff? Its so expensive!


Hmm yeah I have seen them. Maybe instead of building walls I should build a partition like that out of 703 ? and some simple plexi glass? Or maybe just a free standing wall for now kinda wrapped around the mixing area? I dunno...

Trying to think cost effective as possible because its not a long term thing, but also trying to think best as possible and maybe it might be a few year thing? worth spending a some money on it to build walls etc?
 
Cinder Block is as good as you are going to get.
No point in covering it up, waste of effort/treasure.

Thats good to know. I like the way Cinder Block looks too. I love bricks for design appeal.


Go to the library and try to find some of Rod Gervais books and thoroughly understand the content of Ethan Winers website. [.quote]

Will do!

One thing you can certainly do for free is download and learn to use Google Sketch Up. You can model your entire studio, down to the studs and pieces of drywall and traps you are going to put in, and put it up for criticism here.
Hastily jotting things down on paper is no substitute for proper plans.
Do it right and you will know exactly how much material you are going to have to buy. You will also avoid the extremely costly mistake of redoing something. It is somewhere between 10 and 15 times cheaper to make your mistakes in the planning stages, than to correct it after-the-fact.

If you're a young guy, learning software should come easy to you. I'm an old dog and while I at one time was pretty good at 3D modeling, the software has come so far in the last 15 years it is scary. I have been able to make good use of Sketch Up in just about five serious hours at it. Your time (at this point in your life) is probably the most affordable resource you have.
Don't spend a penny on materials until you have a decent 3D model.
I am currently moving into a new space and I will have it completely laid out, and know where everything is going before I ever lift anything besides a mouse.
Cheers
C>

I'm pretty young and yes I feel my time is very valuable and hate wasting it! I'm 26 years old, married, with 1 child and another on the way! Time is precious to me!

I did start messing with sketch up in the past and gave up on it for some reason, I cant remember why.

Any advice on what homestudioguy said? Think I should just scrap having walls and use some DIY type 703 or equiv. dividers?

I appreciate all of your help. I realize I have an unideal situation I'm trying to get the best possible sound out of... Thanks!
 
just using gobos would certainly be easier; it will not solve your problem of having people talk while you are tracking, or isolating the tracking room from the rest of the world.
Give sketch-up another shot, it kicks ass.
When you said young guy, I was thinking high school age.
You got miles to go man, don't sweat a few months in the scheme of things.
I did about 15 months of research before I built my first little room.
I probably had about 200 hours of labor and $1500 in materials in it before I was finished. Play around in sketch up and see what the room will really look like before you invest in any labor. If you have to satisfy your tracking jones in an empty room while you are planning this, so be it.
new_studio-3.jpg
 
I thought it was the devil at first too - go through the tutorials and realize that you can hit tab and type in the dimensions you need and the light bulb will come on.
You have to get used to it snapping to the correct orientation, once you realize that it is trying to help you, instead of fighting you, things will go a little easier.
Hiding things while you are working on other stuff is a big part of it as well.
You've seen all the the stuff that Rick does - and he does other peoples stuff, for entertainment!
Just takes a little time...
and I'll reiterate - time is your friend right now.
You're young (odds are healthy), may have a family that supports your music, and smart enough to look for answers instead of wading in and wasting money.
Take advantage of it.
Another cost savings measure is to find some fiberglass ceiling tiles - the kind with yellow rigid fiberglass in them; often they toss these during commercial remodeling. These tiles are basically OC703 in a thinner sheet; pile them up, you get the same effect as (usually more expensive) OC703.
I built traps out of these (just peeled off the front layer of white plastic, the side you see when you are sitting under a suspended ceiling).
Cheers and good luck.
C>
 
Oh wow... I didnt know that... yeah we have the corrugated looking ceiling tiles that can crumble and crack. I'll def look for some of those! Great idea.

Man I had my room all finished and then off a sudden I had unparalleled stuff and extra lines i was like WTFFFF! No matter how much I tried to fix it it was just being gay. lol

I need to watch the rest of the tutorials.
 
Haa, Yeah, another reminder from my past in 3D modeling -
If you get some significant work done, just save off a copy, so that you have a fall back point in case you fark it up later.
Can't tell you how many times that has save my bacon.
I don't care for use of "gay" as a description of something acting the way you don't want it too.
You're young; not stupid.
C>
 
Studio.jpg

Studio_top3.jpg

Studio_top.jpg

Studio_top2.jpg


Ok chuges and anyone else that will pleae aid me! Heres a sketchup design of the space.

Hey Chuges where did you get the sketchup guitars and mixers etc?

I will only have rack mounted stuff using a PC so the control room in the picture is the general idea.


I have questions on the jpeg that need answering please! and if anyone has any suggestions please! please! please! let me know.

The ceiling and the doors are going to be the weakest link I think. The floor above the ceiling being its original wood floor from 1979 and bats of Johns Mansville Thermal & Sound Control under that with a regular drop ceiling tile. I've been looking into the acoustic drop ceiling tiles and thats definitely an option. Maybe I should double up on the sound control batts too?

I didnt finish the molding and of course there will be doors! just solid wood doors unless anyone knows of a better idea for a door?


Thanks!

It's a small space so I guess I could double up on the drywall on the exterior of the walls too. Wouldn't cost that much.
 
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In the control room. I could put the bass traps together in the middle and then add two more angled in the corners. I could also add triangled traps above the window or an angled rectangle trap? Triangle meaning, using 703 to literally make a triangle shape and cover it with cloth like the Auralex bass traps. Or would it be better to have a space behind them? Same thing for the basstraps behind the mixxing position? Solid 703 for the whole corner or good to have air behind?
 
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