Wall building and sheetrock advice needed

I think people are losing their sense of humor...not humor to make fun OF people, but the humor to laugh our selves and not allow every little thing to offend us.

Oh...I didn't even know the thing about Churchill's statue...?...what, are they taking them down over there, just like so many here in the USA?
I totally get that certain figures of the past had some negative side...but you can't apply today's perspective retroactively to things that happened 100-200-300 years ago. I mean, why not rip down all the statues world wide that celebrated conquering hero's of ancient times, or any of them that don't fit some modern day, PC image...?
It's a becoming a bit all to much like the China's Cultural Revolution in the '60s...erasing history and forcing change on society based on one person's view.
It didn't work out well.

OK...so, how's that studio wall stuff coming along?! :p
 
I agree. And I don't see a problem with that. When people are discussing what they do, what they think, what they've found to be the case, there's a huge degree of self serving.

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But ultimately, science has been a double edged sword. Because while it has progressed in terms of actual studio construction and sound exploration {for want of a better word}, it has simultaneously enabled music to be created and recorded and reproduced in ways and spaces that compensate for the absence of that which one wing of the debate venerates.

Of course everything we choose in our studio world is ultimately "self-serving"...the point was that if you claim that everything is subjective, and there are no ways to truly quantify and compare...that type of self-serving view will often lead you to a negative outcome...."I like it, therefore it's as good as can be."...well OK, if you're the only person who will ever hear it/judge it...but that's not always the case.
It's like someone who only ever uses an SM57, making the claim that there is no better mic, because they think the 57 sounds great.
That's a self-serving argument without merit...it only paints them into a corner. Maybe they are happy in their corner, but that's a different thing.

Also...science has not really found a way to compensate for a lousy sounding recording space. There are ways to try and improve it...but like Orson and I were saying earlier...that if you can't properly insulate and treat a room, then it isn't suitable for a studio. There's no way around that with software or what have you...and some guys that do acoustics for a living, will be honest enough to tell someone that their room simply can't be made to provide a decent studio space.
Of course...that doesn't stop thousands of home rec guys for going ahead anyway with those rooms, because they have no other choice...and that brings us back to the self-serving argument thing again. :)
It also doesn't stop a lot of manufacturers from selling treatments that won't be able to fix the room...and we've seen that...rooms stuffed with treatment that still sound like shit, and the person asking what more can they do...and the answer is, "Nothing...the room is untreatable for studio use".

It's not really a question of "Can I record music in my kitchen?"...sure you can, and maybe you'll like what you get, even if you're that guy with only an SM57 mic...but that doesn't make that kitchen a suitable studio space.
I think in a nutshell what makes a good or great room worthwhile, just like what makes great audio gear worthwhile...is that it removes many of the hurdles that come with trying to record in a kitchen with only an SM57....and that's certainly not a subjective opinion, that's a fact.
Sometimes you can overcome many of the hurdles by doing a lot of things differently or simply beating away at something until you fix it and make it acceptable...and that's fine, if it works, it works....but often there are hurdles that can't be overcome, and what happens then is we end up settling for the best we can get, and become happy with it...and that IS certainly subjective.
 
Four days work, and the first layer of plasterboard is complete, the electrics are in (well at least the cables), and the ceiling part done - the centre section is going to have a bass trap that goes up into the roof space, as height in the studio is limited - it's 2.3m floor to ceiling. We've had the usual issues. We thought and thought about anything we'd missed, so we think that sitting in the gap between brick and the plasterboard is one clamp, one utility knife and three sharpies. Nowhere else to look! Other mistakes were two cat7 cables that were forgotten, and we had to take off one piece of plasterboard to get them into the inside space. The biggest stage is supply - all the builders merchants have really poor stock - so certain sizes and products are out, but we did find rockwool at one at a big discount so bought quite a lot.

The worst bit is we have decided that the Adam 77x speakers are going to be soffit mounted - and the actual panel they are going in will be tilted slightly so they aim at the ears at the desk when sitting. The frame to mount them will be fairly simple, but the panel will be difficult to fit - I've tried to calculate the shape, but it's beyond me - so it will have to be done in situ! We're having trouble sourcing the fire door we're planning to use for the access as the size we want isn't available. We got one door today, but they're note sure when the other we need will turn up. Things like caulk - ordinary builder caulk are a problem. The shelves are empty!

The green glue arrived, but the product, being American is a different size than our UK tubes and finding a UK larger gun is stupidly difficult. The raised flooring is on hold as there's no timber in the 3 local merchants of the right size.

Other than that - we've made decent progress I think.
 
So here's my question...why is that people who fall into a given group or race or color or what have you, are allowed to call each other those "loaded words"...and it's perfectly fine...but when someone else outside that particular group uses them, it's a big NO-NO, and everyone gets all bent out of shape...?
It's a very good question and part of the answer is very nuanced. For some, it's a matter of taking the sting with all its historical associations and capacity to hurt, out of a word, for example Black people referring to other Blacks as n i g g e r s, gay people referring to themselves as queer, some women referring to other women as bitches in a general way rather than specifically about just one woman who they disliked.
Before I ever heard rappers in particular using 'n i g g e r' a mate and I used to use the word among ourselves but it was taking the mickey out of the kind of people that used to call us names back in the 60s and 70s. We'd impersonate the accent of the people that lived down in Islington at the time {I've long been quite good at accents, both those in the British isles as well as just about every continent} or we'd take the piss out of some of the people we heard on TV that had nothing but negative things to say about anyone that wasn't them or the kids we'd grown up with that had some novel things to say to and about us. We'd use all the slurs against us that we'd heard {and not all of them were racial} and nearly always crease up laughing because we'd always thought they were so stupid yet carried such power once. If it rained on us or if a bus didn't stop or a car went through a puddle and splashed us or we got to a shop at closing time and couldn't get in, we'd turn to each other in mock anguished tones and say "It's because I'm black !" So for me personally, it was a sarcasm thing. Real experience, some of it pretty nasty, was tied up in the humour, but it was sarcastic humour nonetheless.
It isn't for everyone though.
It should be pointed out that certainly among Black people, older ones generally, from the 80s onwards, it hasn't been something taken up by a majority and there were lots of debates about the Black use of "the N word" {I hate that phrase. No pun intended, but call a spade a spade} among Black people and most that I heard speaking about it hated it even when they understood why it was being used. It's also interesting that it's been way more of an American thing than a British one because although Black British rappers would use the word sometimes, it's not something that is a common thing here. I personally never use such words generally. There's maybe one friend I have where, again in sarcasm, I'd use such words but I won't use insulting or nasty phrases about anyone. When I look back over my life, it's just never been a part of me. So if a Scot upset me, it would be a Scot, not a 'jock'; if it was someone Irish, it wouldn't be a 'Mick' or a 'Paddy,' just someone Irish. I was like that long before I was a Christian. I think I've just long been fascinated with people and how we're so alike and yet at the same time so different.

I'm not sure that other groups or races or cultures use the words among themselves that a once oppressive group has given them but it would be interesting to see how prevalent it is.
 
I'm sick to death of political correctness
From its inception it went beyond its remit which was simply a recognition that in certain instances, the language used about a group and they way they were portrayed in the wider society by those within the existing power structures went a long way towards the discrimination that came the way of those groups. PC could be simply put ~ be careful how the way you refer to people may play into how those people continue to be treated. Like most good things that should equalize a situation, it went too far.


the crazy things in London with Winston Churchill's statue really wind me up
I think the tearing down of statues is ridiculous, not because there may be no reason to have issues with the person who the statue is of, but because where does one draw the line? How far do we go back ? Why should person A's opinion of who shouldn't be 'statued' be any more valid than someone else's who might feel the same way about someone that person A admires and wants to see up there ?

All the people over 50 fully agreed, and all the people under 30 disagreed
There is definitely an age aspect to all that we've been seeing recently but at the same time, many of the young people freaking the freakout didn't pick this up in a vacuum. Many of the people continuous generations including our own, have held up high on pedestals have been against the status quo at some point. We prize teaching children to think for themselves and be independent in their living and decision making. That kind of means they're likely to do just that. It also means they're likely to see things very differently from the generation that has nurtured them.

Funny how Winston Churchill and Roosevelt are people looked up to by some and looked upon as imperialists/Nationalists
But that's our world isn't it ? Some of it stems from the fact that people in history are not portrayed in a balanced way because to do so means some awkward questions get asked by future generations so we portray people as heroes. Then some find out they had some dubious sides and before you know it........
The truth is that we're human and sometimes we're bloody awful.


The thing I find quite funny is this idea that these nicknames/terms are automatically racist
Some of them are but not automatically so. But I'd rather not use the term 'racist' unless it actually was racist. And that's why it was important for me in the first place to set the term "double Dutch" and "Dutch courage" in their historical context of war. Not every term is that way, it depends on who coins it and who it's coined about. The country name 'Ethiopia' comes from two Greek words that mean 'burnt' and 'face'. So when the Greeks first came upon the people of that land, they referred to them in terms that carried a meaning of 'dark skinned' ~ nothing racist or prejudicial there, simply a description of something not seen before in terms that everyone would understand.
 
I'm sick to death of political correctness, and the crazy things in London with Winston Churchill's statue really wind me up. I thought I'd experiment and made a fairly simple statement on Facebook. All the people over 50 fully agreed, and all the people under 30 disagreed. Funny how Winston Churchill and Roosevelt are people looked up to by some and looked upon as imperialists/Nationalists.

It would be interesting to see how the over 90's would respond. Churchill wasn't popular amongst many in the UK at the time - he was voted out in no uncertain terms in the first election he fought as prime minister straight after WW2. As far as the Colston statue in Bristol was concerned, there was a long running story behind it and much local frustration - the protests were simply a tipping point for something that had been a local issue for years.
 
I think people are losing their sense of humor...not humor to make fun OF people, but the humor to laugh our selves and not allow every little thing to offend us.
I think I've felt that since before this century even began. It's almost like one isn't even allowed to laugh at oneself or one's own culture. I can understand there being some issues with laughing at someone else's {although this would depend on how it's done ~ it can be done tenderly and respectfully and hilariously} but one's own ? I see funny things in pretty much all peoples. I can't help what I find funny.


all the builders merchants have really poor stock .....We're having trouble sourcing the fire door we're planning to use for the access as the size we want isn't available. We got one door today, but they're not sure when the other we need will turn up. Things like caulk - ordinary builder caulk are a problem. The shelves are empty!

The green glue arrived, but the product, being American is a different size than our UK tubes and finding a UK larger gun is stupidly difficult. The raised flooring is on hold as there's no timber in the 3 local merchants of the right size.
Do you get the impression that there's been a lot of building going on over the last few months of lockdown ? :D Someone's been buying all that stock !
 
It would be interesting to see how the over 90's would respond. Churchill wasn't popular amongst many in the UK at the time - he was voted out in no uncertain terms in the first election he fought as prime minister straight after WW2. As far as the Colston statue in Bristol was concerned, there was a long running story behind it and much local frustration - the protests were simply a tipping point for something that had been a local issue for years.

He was voted out not because he was unpopular, but because of all the promises the other side said they would do. After being bombed and killed. Families torn apart with most without a roof over their heads because those lovely Germans had wrecked nearly every country (nothing changed). Added to that there were millions of servicemen coming home with no employment because they had been busy fighting for dear life for the past 6 years.

The country was wrecked and Churchill was a wartime leader. The people wanted the new promises of a welfare state etc which I think started after a few years.
 
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I think I've felt that since before this century even began. It's almost like one isn't even allowed to laugh at oneself or one's own culture. I can understand there being some issues with laughing at someone else's {although this would depend on how it's done ~ it can be done tenderly and respectfully and hilariously} but one's own ? I see funny things in pretty much all peoples. I can't help what I find funny.

I grew up at a time when all we did was take the piss out of each other and everyone. Nobody complained of any colour or country of origin. But then some white people got a name for themselves by protesting about some who did this. They may have even got paid to appear on tv?

Colour, races, gays. Nobody gave a f*ck when I was younger except the cops who would nick the gays in public toilets. We all got on fairly ok and all took the piss out of each other not caring what was said. If you said something caustic then you got it back just as bad or worse.

Today I am told by younger people that we oldies were all gay hating, racist, sexual deviants. It's strange to be told this by people who cant work out what toilet to use and can only talk to another human being via social media.
 
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Same here...grew up when we all made fun of each other and everyone else...and they made fun of us...and no one got "offended".

I think that words without context and specific intent...are just words. All this stupid "the __ word" stuff makes it seem like were all 5 years old...and it's gotten worse lately, with people using that phrase for more and more words they suddenly can't say out loud....but you can hear freely spoken on most every channel you turn to except maybe the Family channel and kids channels.
Heck...I really DO HATE IT when some family channel decides to show a movie with lots of cursing and violence...and then proceeds to censor it all out. :facepalm:
I won't watch it...the movie loses the punch that the director intended.

Saying a word is not the same as using it in a derogatory way.
"Oh shit, I just spilled my coffee" is not the same as "You shit, you just spilled my coffee".
OMG...I just used the "S" word. :eek:

:D
 
Before the lockdown, I was producing a show for elderly people - 60 and above (God, I'm in that group now!) and Usually it's comedy or music themed, and often the younger comedy is not suitable for their likes, and music gets trickier, each year. I had the idea to see if I could put together an old fashioned variety show - and see if the people that they used to go to see in the 40's, 50's and 60's who are still alive are still performing - and loads, though retirement age, still are. To cut to the end, it worked, and they had the best show ever - I was told, because the comedy and the music were exactly right. However - for my crew, it was far from plain sailing. One of the turns was a comedian and he sang too - and while talking to the audience, he pulled out a little case and mirror and started to apply black makeup. Finishing the act as Al Jolson - doing Mammy! Huge applause, and total gobsmacked silence from the members of the crew in their 20's horrified at what had happened. During the act, one asked me urgently if he should go on and stop it? The lighting guy suggested dropping the lights and the sound girl asked if she should kill his mic. My resounding NO was received very, very badly. One, who I'd known for quite a few years never worked for me again, so steamed up about the racially offensive show I had made him work on. In the UK, us older ones refer to these people as snowflakes - which is meant in quite a derogatory manner - people so easily offended they are impossible to converse with.

The hurt, the shock and the anger in these young get people was amazing to see. Yet, as mentioned above - cursing and unpleasant content are now normal - and I hate that. Yet a soap opera has to contain warnings to people and help-line numbers because something unpleasant is going to happen. The youngsters however love the TV programmes where they choose people based on looking at them naked - it's fine for close up shots of people's equipment but you cannot say certain words? The world has truly gone mad.
 
On the subject of the young ones. Have you ever noticed how many of them suffer from anxiety and depression and can't face the world. I think it was called laziness when we was younger.

Suppose my Grandad was a bit anxious when he had to go to the trenches in France and of course he got a bit depressed when his mate has his head blown off by a sniper. He still carried on and didn't use it as an excuse to sit at home playing games on the pc all day.

But then in those days you only got fat because you were a greedy barsket and ate too much where today it is a disease and you need therapy and need to share it with the world via facebook.
 
On the subject of the young ones. Have you ever noticed how many of them suffer from anxiety and depression and can't face the world. I think it was called laziness when we was younger.

Yeah...the depth of melodrama over the smallest of life's dilemmas, is both comical and pitiful.
The younger generations want to wipe out all the "man up" and "work hard, and win" stuff...while at the same time having great expectations that things will simply be provided for the...or rather that it's "someone" duty to provide it for them, rather than having to work long and hard for things.

I don't just say that as an "older" person...because even back in my early teens, there was no sitting on my ass and waiting for someone to give me something.
Most kids were quickly trained that if you want something...you work for it.

Now I do see that not all of our younger people are lazy or simply suffering from deep feelings of entitlement...there are some who are still raised to respect work and the rewards that come from it...but way too many expecting handouts, and worse yet, is when they expect it from the government, without rationalizing where that money and those government "freebies" actually come from.
Mind you...these are the same generations that are concerned that here in the US, Social Security may run out of money in then next 15-20 years.
Well...more people have to work, get the deductions taken out, and put into the program if it's going to remain solvent well into their senior years.

Anyway...I can see this thread is gone off the tracks now... :D...but I think all the people posting in it are OK with it.
I'm sure we'll come back to the wall soundproofing and treatment stuff eventually. :)
 
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