Studio Design

violent grey

New member
Is it possible to engineer one studio room that can be used for mixing AND mastering? Different monitors, different positions, different listening position... but same room and same acoustic treatment... can this be done? Further more, can this be done in a small room lol... 11.3 ft wide, 13.4 ft deep, 8.4 feet high?

I do my own work and music projects. I wish to create an acoustic treatment plan to target issues or problems and will make everything myself. I already purchased 250 sq ft of roxul safe n sound and have been using this setup for over a year now. It does have issues but gives me a sweet spot where I can hear the mix well enough. Id like to improve though. Im planning on a cloud using 703 panels. But I thought before I move any further, I should ask...


If I had the money to ask an engineer, how can I achieve my goal, how much would that be? I am not an educated engineer nor am I specailized in studio designs. Im well aware that mixing studios are in fact designed differently than mastering studios, as is the gear, etc. but can it be done? Im just looking t get as good as I can before I send it to a mastering engineer. how far should I take it?

I see for 300 bucks I can buy 6 8x4 ft sheets of 703 2 inch thick... I want to wrap my room in it... lol ... but dont know how to do the math to tell me what exactly I need, or where I need it. Any help is greatly appreciated. Im willing to invest a few grand in materials and design, but ideally the conceptual idea may not work. integrating two different physics... really. thanks for any help.
 
Hey there violent. If that is indeed your real name... lol!

There are many topics here that deal with similar situations.

I will say I would not recommend wrapping the whole room in 703. You want some life in that room if recording in it.

Typical and 'ideal' acoustic treatment for mixing room is very different than a recording room. In the same space you just have to find something that works for both. Sorry but that is going to be a trial and error type of thing.

The basics are simple tho. Get rid of first reflection points for mixing and bass trap the corners in the end of the room you mix in.

Oh, and know your monitors, don't record too hot, and never let a cat make decisions for you. lol!
 
My impression was that *real* mastering places tended to have bigger rooms and really good, bigger speakers. Not saying you can't do it there, and I'm sure most of us do some kind of mastering (or pseudo-mastering, as I call it, since I know I'm working blind, or perhaps deaf with 5" monitors) but I believe your room size is some disadvantage.

Happy to hear otherwise!

P.S. And, yeah, you have to compromise when you've only got one room. Mine is more designed/treated for mixing.
 
I am biased (but I'm biased partially by 35 years of experience). No doubt - You're always compromising by mixing and mastering in the same space (which is why you'll rarely ever find a mastering engineer that will work on their own mixes). Any issue in the mixing space that's the same as in the mastering space and you've multiplied that problem.

Keith touched on speakers -- If they can't actually fool you into thinking the band is right there in the room with you, you need better speakers (IMO/E).

That said - Taking it as far as you can is always going to pay off. The best speakers you can possibly afford, the best room treatments you can possibly afford - Always a good investment. Twice as much? A better investment. I'll argue about spending ($X) on this mic and ($X) on this processor or ($X) on this compressor. But if someone ever says "I want to spend $7.5k on monitors and another $7.5k on room treatment" all their going to get from me is a nod of "now you've got it" in return. Mixing, mastering or otherwise.
 
I totally agree that monitors + room treatment is the best investment, but it´s new for me that a room for mixing should be different to a room for mastering, as the monitors should be different as well. So sad to be poor.... what a expensive job i´m in!!
 
Some 2" thick cloud panels above your mixing position will help. 250 sq ft of s&s - 4" thick that would be 30 2'x 4' panels, if it's 2", then that's 15 panels. 4" is the minimum you want to do for any trapping, thicker is better. You are unlikely to improve anything by 'wrapping' the room in 2" 703.
 
All right, cool, some reading first thing this morning is nice :) especially when its not news or something about politics or such lol....

Thanks for the replies all! I agree with you all, and I think we all have the same idea yea.

My choices are simple. I am limited by a budget, which only means I must do the work... that doesn't mean I get to skimp out on design or concept.

I have some more ideas, before I recollect my thoughts for this thread.

Idea is to have one room, two listening positions, two sets of monitors, but to have room treatment that is stationary, I don't want to swap out stuff or move things around much.

To my understanding, I want a mixing room that I can master to some degree to get it good enough, to send to a real mastering engineer, or put it up on soundcloud and make demos so I can get attention and promote to labels, get bookings, maybe even DJ on when playing live yea, the home master is just a pre master imo, where I get it to sound as good as I can get it, before sending it out to master - once I get the deal or am making $ ... This will save me a lot of money and help me to learn more about the process and I will get experience, even if its not professional, Im learning it.

I am serious about this so, I did some research and found a guy that take your room data and does stuff with it and tells ya what you need for what type of environment you seek, but its around 1500 - 2500 $ just for the design phase. I just want a flat response room as best I can so I can hear the mix and sound design as accurately as possible within mind of budget. I believe the guy has a good background though not sure about his reputation professional in the field, like, are his studios crap... anyway, I have to research this more.

Wrapping the room in 703 was a broad over statement. Im aware you can suck the life out of a room by adding treatment where it isnt needed.

I have a box of 2 inch 2x4 panels on the way for the cloud, its 6 piece cloud. I also got a box of 1 inch panels and will have 12 of them, and they can too, be part of the cloud, corners along the ceiling, maybe stuff them in the front of back of the panels I made as to combine the technologies, also plan to add some 1 inch panels over the corners, leaving a gap between the rockwool and the inside of the 703.

Thing is, Ive watched how studios are made, I do construction and fabrication etc so I get how its built, but I dont exactly know how to build it for said circumstance, getting all that math and calculation for acoustics and nulls or nodes, standing waves,... I dont want to make music with phasing or comb filtering, I want to know what they sound like, and how to identify them problems in the mix, and to be able to basically give my mix to a mixing engineer, and have him say, its not perfect but pretty damn good. :) Id like to learn more, but be able to produce a decent product. what ever I need to do this, I will do that.

So I think, I want a mixing room, because thats where all the magic happens. and in mastering, if there is an issue in the mix, he cant fix it. and I dont want to go pay someone to fix all the errors I make... I want to know how to do that myself. so I need to be able to hear it. That said, I guess what I need to know is, how far past the mixdown, do I really need to go then before putting it on soundcloud, mp3 for car, home, phone, headphone reference checks, what about a mastering engineer? Its important to me I guess cause I am a nerd, or just like to do a good job and want to perfect my sound before coming out and reaching for attraction.

What I do currently, is no recording in the room, everything is in daw digitally recorded, and that likely, wont change anytime soon. I make electronic dance music. I have a eris 8's and a temblor t10 sub. I like them. I want an adam sub and maybe a set of better monitors, like gennies or something nice, something that blows these presonus away... I use Reason and have made myself a nice workflow, x touch compacts 3x for mixer control and easy automation, three screens for sound design for fast workflow, once screen for mixing, mastering, (I get acoustic anomalies with three screen up, in current setup so I mix with only one, letting sound pass thru that area to the panels and mattress behind my sub and screens.) I go sound design, get the sequence, mix it, and then use ozone 8 to master it all of which is thru Reason, using specific templates that are simple and almost a mock of how real studios would do things. thats my design, mix, phase, and would like to get a set of reference to make sure my mix is good without having to pay someone to do it.

Maybe I cant really do it. just because I buy a set of b&w;s doesnt mean I wont color my mix or miss the mistakes that are present in the mix... but the master is to just give me a good enough to get it out there so it can actually be heard.


Am I going about this the wrong way?
 
Not sure about the two listening positions idea. What leads you to that? Two sets of monitors is good though.

I would agree that in your space you want to make it as good as it can be to mix your music. Use other systems to check yourself until you get use to/'learn' your monitors. BTW, Adam A7x and a sub work really well for me from heavy rock to country, to hip hop rap guys with tons of low end samples/backing tracks. You really need a sub for electronic music for sure and it can be done in a small room. But you will find you need the bass traps so your head doesn't explode wondering why the low end sounds nothing like it does in your studio-on other systems.

The magic happens with the performance. Then the mix of the performance. Mastering is just putting the final touches on a good product. Magic indeed by a great mastering guy. But not the place that starts the magic.
 
Any windows,doors or closets in this room?
Are you able to achieve bilateral symmetry?
A workable neutral reference space could be done.

G
 
Well tbh the idea was my own based on the two different types of studio design. It may seems silly but I thought maybe, can we combine the two into a studio that will do well enough for both roles.

I have no doors or windows but there are two doorways on the left and right. I did post a picture somewhere, here is one attached to this message. I made the partition wall, so it is in a ratio to the depth and height which falls into the red of one of them graphs of studio size rooms but at least its now square. :) I was gonna get moving blankets and use two for the left and right side, cut a hole for the doorway, and roll it up, unroll it when wanted to do music. the idea is Im a build a door for both or a plug that will let me remove it completely... and I can store it by the fridge, the bedroom door will slide open and closed. the cloud... and floor and corners... blankets, move the door for the bedroom so its pretty much mirrors the kitchen doorway, It dont have to be perfect. I dont get too loud so,

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