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Thread: Studio Building-If you had to do it all over again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    If I had to do it all over again, I would put a four inch air gap between all my bass traps (corners excluded) and the wall. Air space should improve performance. It may only be a db or two, but this is a game of inches. Every little counts.
    (as the actress said to the Bish.....)

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    If I had to do it all over again, I would put a four inch air gap between all my bass traps (corners excluded) and the wall. Air space should improve performance. It may only be a db or two, but this is a game of inches. Every little counts.
    Why an air gap? Not disagreeing, I'm just curious as I'm totally new to sound treatments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buggaluggs View Post
    Why an air gap? Not disagreeing, I'm just curious as I'm totally new to sound treatments.
    There's a science behind it...but the gap helps better trap the LF coming in and then going back through the trap. The 4" thing is just the most common, because people won't/can't give up more space to have the traps sticking out say...12'...etc...though there is a point where the gap too big...like once you get out to around 24", it';s less effective.

    It works against the wall too...just not as efficiently for LF trapping. You want to make the LF work more through the trap, which is what slows/traps it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buggaluggs View Post
    Why an air gap? Not disagreeing, I'm just curious as I'm totally new to sound treatments.
    You'll notice the built-in gap behind most corner traps, such as the one sold by Acoustimac. Unfortunately, when you buy a standard 4" trap most dealers don't include hardware to mount the trap off the wall. Some may provide kits but they usually cost extra. You can do it yourself with a little effort, though.

    The air gap is also typical for DIY corner bass traps which straddle corners. Usually, this gap runs close to a foot. But, practically speaking, it's really determined by basic geometry. You can see this if you take a piece of wood and lay it evenly across a room corner. This creates a triangle of a depth that is determined by the width of the wood you use--If that makes sense. Tenth grade Geometry for me was in 1974, If I recall correctly.

    I've heard people argue that the straddle trap can be augmented by attic insulation. In other words, filling the triangle. Does it work? I don't know. I've never tried it, tested it, or seen test results. But it's worth looking into. Personally, with your room, I would look at the super chunk approach. Just Google "super chunk bass traps" and you'll quickly get the idea.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mbt_0000_d3600c-jpg  

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    As I understand it, sound absorbers work on particle VELOCITY not pressure and at a rigid interface, aka "wall" the particle is necessarily zero so any absorbent material AT the wall is doing next to sweet FA.

    You could of course just make the absorber deeper and touching the wall but that would be largely a waste of material. The gap gives you about the same performance but with less material. Or, looked at another way, about the same performance with less absorbent.

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    As I understand it, sound absorbers work on particle VELOCITY not pressure and at a rigid interface, aka "wall" the particle is necessarily zero so any absorbent material AT the wall is doing next to sweet FA.

    You could of course just make the absorber deeper and touching the wall but that would be largely a waste of material. The gap gives you about the same performance but with less material. Or, looked at another way, about the same performance with less absorbent.

    Dave.

    You need traps that work with pressure(high pressure equals zero particle velocity) in the corners.
    Foam works with particle velocity transferring to heat.

    G
    screenshot_2019-04-15-sound-reproduction-png

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    You could of course just make the absorber deeper and touching the wall but that would be largely a waste of material. The gap gives you about the same performance but with less material.

    Dave.
    Another way of looking at it is just cost. Less material is less money. OC 703 is fairly inexpensive but you'll end up paying close to $100 for six 2" panels by the time they're delivered. Stacking three panels to for a six inch trap, and then stacking two such traps, means that a typical trap straddling the corners will cost about $100. And that's without fabric or a frame. I'd guess that filling the air gap with 703 would probably use up as much as half to three-quarters of an additional box.

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    I probably stated this in another thread, but it's worth repeating: My first corner traps (6" of OC703 stacked floor to ceiling) didn't work as well as I would have hoped. I replaced them with a variant of the super chunk approach. In my case, I used 24x24 squares of R-30 insulation (The standard off the shelf stuff from the big box store). These squares were stacked into frames with a support in the middle which keeps the insulation from becoming compressed and changing it's density. I built two for each corner and then stacked them. Building two makes them a lot easier to move should that day ever come. So, if I had to so it over again, I'd probably start with super chunks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    Another way of looking at it is just cost. Less material is less money. OC 703 is fairly inexpensive but you'll end up paying close to $100 for six 2" panels by the time they're delivered. Stacking three panels to for a six inch trap, and then stacking two such traps, means that a typical trap straddling the corners will cost about $100. And that's without fabric or a frame. I'd guess that filling the air gap with 703 would probably use up as much as half to three-quarters of an additional box.
    True. Sound absobers are also used inside speaker cabinets to reduce the internal standing vaves that would otherwise exit as a "honks" at various frequencies. Many decades ago one of the first true experimenters with hi fi speakers was G.A.Briggs of Wharfedale fame.

    He determined that the least good place for the material (Bonded Acetate Fibre then, Superseded by "well teased, long fibre wool at the high table of hi fi) was, as was the norm, stuck to the inside cabinet walls. He found empirically that a single sheet from top to bottom with one twist in it was most effective. This agrees with theory as the material intercepts all the modes at maximum particle velocity.

    Briggs was certainly into "quality" but knew that commercial reality meant keeping cost down by using resources efficiently. You all might know of course that the Warfedale factory was "oop north" in Idle Bradford where tha'din't waste brass!

    Dave.

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    Farewell and ado to you fair spanish ladies...

    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    Wait until you hear my cover of Spanish Ladies. I've also got some old USS Indianapolis stories.
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