Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 51

Thread: Room Measurements...Can I stop now?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Sign in to disable this ad
    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    We are probably closer than you think on these issues. Again, I'm not putting all my eggs in the measurements basket. I spent a long time (2-3 years) recording and mixing in my space and listening on headphones (Senheiser HD650's, AKG 240's, etc) and monitors. I was never completely confident or happy with my recordings and I became more interested in the impact of room acoustics on the final sound. As I noted in another thread, I've been down the equipment road, the recording techniques road, and the mastering road looking for solutions. I've solicited the aid of a mixing engineer to see if an outside studio impacted my work. And I've tried listening, thinking, researching, and talking about audio and recording until I was blue in the face.

    As a result, my interest in room acoustics is really a sort of a last stop in the home recording train. Measurement is just part and parcel of that process. It's another way of thinking about what happens when we record by looking at the fundamentals of sound. It's also just another sub-hobby buried under the larger umbrella of recording. Some people make guitars, some people build studios, some play in bands, and many go shopping. If I had to write music and record it on a daily basis, I would be institutionalized. Or perhaps lop of an ear. So things like room measurement fill the void. Besides, the pictures are really pretty.
    all well and good if you are the only one listening in the same room at the same spot

    but what if other people play it in other rooms
    how will it sound there

    how about in the car?

    does it really pay to go to the trouble to make it perfect when so many other locations will mess it up again ?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by mr average View Post
    all well and good if you are the only one listening in the same room at the same spot

    but what if other people play it in other rooms
    how will it sound there

    how about in the car?

    does it really pay to go to the trouble to make it perfect when so many other locations will mess it up again ?
    That's the whole basis behind acoustic treatment and confirmation through measurement. The idea is that if you mix in a properly treated room, your mixes will translate. You won't have to spend your life in the car.

    Granted, it's a large and complicated assumption. But that's essentially why people go through this effort.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    348
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    That's the whole basis behind acoustic treatment and confirmation through measurement. The idea is that if you mix in a properly treated room, your mixes will translate. You won't have to spend your life in the car.

    Granted, it's a large and complicated assumption. But that's essentially why people go through this effort.

    i hear the room treatment sales guys say that a lot
    but when i think about it logically it does not compute

    use the screen and mix it flat
    listen to it in headphones and it sounds great

    i cannot outguess everybody elses room for them
    .

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by mr average View Post

    i hear the room treatment sales guys say that a lot
    but when i think about it logically it does not compute

    use the screen and mix it flat
    listen to it in headphones and it sounds great

    i cannot outguess everybody elses room for them
    .
    Hard to argue with the room treatment sales guys, though. Most of them have pretty extensive backgrounds in acoustics and they use some very big words.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by mr average View Post


    use the screen and mix it flat
    listen to it in headphones and it sounds great
    .
    That's pretty close to my strategy. Mix on headphones, forget about the room, and use the same pair of headphones to listen to your music. And, to be absolutely sure, never play the music anywhere without using those exact headphones. I take this one step further by never letting anyone except my closest friends listen to my songs. And I've given them all the same pair of mixing cans that i use--a pair of Senheiser HD 650's. It get's a little expensive, but I overcome that by having few if any friends. I encourage everyone to try this. It really works. In fact, I'm surprised that someone hasn't thought of this before. It's a solid gold strategy, especially for the headphone companies.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    2,534
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 344 Times in 313 Posts
    Rep Power
    3901875
    I think it is necessary to establish if music is an art, or a science. Can you paint a picture from scratch, by eye, or do you need numbers on the canvas. Can you tune a guitar by ear, or must you use a tuner. Can your brain tell your hands how to strum a song, or do you learn to read tab brilliantly and play by the numbers. How many of the amazingly good musicians we often seek too emulate can read or write conventional music?

    Does it matter? Possibly?

    What seems certain is that talent is required, but the talent can't be itemised and measured. All you can measure is the end product. The process is immaterial. If it works for the individual it's enough. Sadly, the people who don't have the talent end up on the TV programmes totally amazed nobody buzzes, turns, lights or sees their 'talent'.

    The test of any recording process is aural. It will be good or not. Any genre of music. I learned long ago that because I hate rap and metal it does not mean this material cannot be well recorded and produced. We all make end judgements and quality can be applied to any genre and style. I always expected Abbey Road studio in Lindon to be an amazing place and had in my head the fact it would have some kind of magic sound. It doesn't - but it's a nice sound that makes in comfortable to be in. Same with Air Lyndhurst. A very popular place to record classical stuff and sample package. Just a nice sounding space. I only passed through, but I bet their response is not remotely flat, and their monitors are not remotely flat. In fact, what would be the point of studios having two or more pairs of speakers of different sizes if they were flat? What is important is a response that does not make things jump out. In some of the plots here, you can clearly see the clustering of the results and even in one, steps - which clearly don't exist in real life, so are measurement anomalies.

    I firmly believe that trusting my ears is the only way, and double checking against measurement tools ultlimately pointless.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to rob aylestone For This Useful Post:


  8. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Cronulla, NSW 2230, Australia
    Posts
    60
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    170094
    Start (or restart) with loudspeaker correction. It is first layer of equalisation and time correction in your control system. There is nothing more right for it as offered by: aplaudio.com
    This way you will get almost ideal loudspeakers - real point of reference. And it will cut loudspeaker & room endless corrections "loop" forever. Continue with loudspeaker direction and room acoustics corrections (room acoustics optimisation and room equalisation /second eq layer over loudspeaker eq/) only after it.
    P.S.
    You can correct your headphones there too. It is even easier because there are not problems with acoustics correction for headphones.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    I think it is necessary to establish if music is an art, or a science. Can you paint a picture from scratch, by eye, or do you need numbers on the canvas. Can you tune a guitar by ear, or must you use a tuner. Can your brain tell your hands how to strum a song, or do you learn to read tab brilliantly and play by the numbers. How many of the amazingly good musicians we often seek too emulate can read or write conventional music?.
    From what I can see these days, music is not art. It's crap. It's largely overproduced, over engineered, and over sold. But that's a somewhat separate discussion. Most bad paintings are created by eye. Some decent Plein Air work is done in that fashion, but most of the great masters used charcoal underdrawings based on perspective--often aided by simple machines like the camera obscura. Yes, you can tune a guitar by ear and by machine. But you are more likely to be sharp or flat using your ear only. Besides, tuning is definitely not art. It's a pain and my wife hates it. Of course tuning machines lie:



    The only thing I can say about the brain is that it can do odd things to music. The CNN Glenn Campbell documentary is evidence of that. And I see it every day when I try to play music. Sometimes I just drift off and can't remember the next chord position. Of course, I take a lot of medicine and dementia does run in my family. So there's that

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    What seems certain is that talent is required, but the talent can't be itemised and measured.
    Talent can be augmented by learning, training, practice and all sorts of different processes. In fact, most talent is simply raw and probably genetic. Or God given for those who believe in the man in the sky stuff. Most musical talent would probably exist in the raw state without the aid of some form of technology and measurement. I wonder if Martin guitar uses any measurement device? I wonder how Adam audio knows the cross over post of their speakers? The list goes on and on. But it's really not an all or nothing debate. Measurement won't kill you. It can add context and deepen your understanding. Of course, you don't need a mic and complicated software. Just play a test done and walk around your room.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,776
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    Rep Power
    420903
    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    The test of any recording process is aural. .
    I believe you mean oral. I began playing music in the early 1970's for one purpose: to attract women. Of course, the ultimate irony is that most of the women I've known (in the biblical sense) have either hated music and enjoyed baseless crap. Oh well.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Would you mix in this room? ( measurements inside )
    By mustardeer in forum Studio Building & Acoustic Treatment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-02-2014, 16:18
  2. what's the best option to get SPL measurements?
    By FreshChops in forum Newbies
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-08-2010, 20:57
  3. ProjectMix I/O measurements
    By mattkw80 in forum Digital Recording & Computers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-12-2007, 19:30
  4. Thresold Measurements
    By Jack Hammer in forum The Rack
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-23-2002, 21:08
  5. Measurements and stuff...
    By KaosDG in forum Studio Building & Acoustic Treatment
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-14-2002, 17:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •