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Thread: roof types and ceiling heights

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    roof types and ceiling heights

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    Hello,

    This is a question for professional folks who have some experience with this type of thing, and I think there are probably plenty in this forum who will understand the question.

    I am having a shed built on my property, for my studio / Tiki bar / musical adventureland / whatever. : )

    I am probably going to use Tuffshed to build the thing, because they will actually assemble it all on site and handle the subcontracting and so forth.

    The standard sidewall heights for the type of building I am contemplating is 8'1". You can add up to 5' of additional height, in 1' increments, but its expensive.

    The two roof styles they offer are Gambel and Gable.

    I asked them about a structure 24' wide and they say they can do it with scissor trusses and no "bottom chord". I'm attaching a drawing they provided which illustrates the two different roof styles with the scissor trusses and some area calculations.

    Now I want really high ceilings, and I'm trying to decide which way to get them with the least problem / expense.

    The Gambrel roof scenario is quite a bit more expensive than the Gable roof, but it provides quite a bit more clear height, although the width of the room would diminish as it goes higher. Using the Gambrel roof may be cheaper and even better than adding 5' to the sidewalls on a Gable roof building.

    The scissor trusses don't really bother me in this scenario. I don't really think they are going to be much in the way of anything. So, I'm thinking of just leaving the whole thing open and then treating the space it as it needs it once its built and measurements can be taken.

    I'm looking for opinions on whether or not the "extra height" provided by the Gambrel roof style is just about as good as actually having taller sidewalls. It would be even higher [but narrower at the top] than adding 5' to the sidewalls and using a Gable roof. But the vault under the Gambrel roof does narrow as it goes up [because it tracks the roof], whereas actual extended sidewalls would go straight up [but not as high].

    Either way, its not going to be a flat ceiling.

    Hopefully this makes sense.

    Thanks in advance for any expert responses.


    Best,

    audiopro
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    For something this size, the price is not going to be cheap - and here in the UK this is NOT a shed, it's a small barn! I don't understand the pricing though. Adding height to the side walls should be much cheaper than adding it via a more complex ceiling. The gable trussing on taller walls uses much less timber and much less complicated construction methods that should turn into time, which is what costs. I assume you are then building the inside yourself - a second construction inside the outer one? If you're not and are panning on adding the sheeting to what they're building - the weight load on the complex trusses needs calculating in and doing properly - and frankly, despite having produced quite a few studios of my own, I don't think I am competent to calculate loadings like this. The size of these trusses and the overall volume of the space would make me want to consult a builder/designer/architect experienced in audio studios. I would be happy to build an internal structure myself, but I would have far less complexity so mine would have much more traditional construction with larger timber size for the spans, and easier to construct non-parallel surfaces. Cost wise - 24 of those trusses surely puts this firmly into the professional paid for advice camp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    For something this size, the price is not going to be cheap - and here in the UK this is NOT a shed, it's a small barn! I don't understand the pricing though. Adding height to the side walls should be much cheaper than adding it via a more complex ceiling. The gable trussing on taller walls uses much less timber and much less complicated construction methods that should turn into time, which is what costs. I assume you are then building the inside yourself - a second construction inside the outer one? If you're not and are panning on adding the sheeting to what they're building - the weight load on the complex trusses needs calculating in and doing properly - and frankly, despite having produced quite a few studios of my own, I don't think I am competent to calculate loadings like this. The size of these trusses and the overall volume of the space would make me want to consult a builder/designer/architect experienced in audio studios. I would be happy to build an internal structure myself, but I would have far less complexity so mine would have much more traditional construction with larger timber size for the spans, and easier to construct non-parallel surfaces. Cost wise - 24 of those trusses surely puts this firmly into the professional paid for advice camp?
    Thanks,

    No, its just going up as a shell. They do it themselves. I'm not putting up drywall on the inside. And I am not building a room in a room or anything like that. No need or desire for isolation in this situation. I'm on a big piece of property, away from others.

    I will probably get someone in to measure and do whatever treatment it may need inside after its up. But the size of the structure should place it outside of, or mostly outside of, the small room acoustics issues.

    Yeah, the Gambrel roof is more expensive. But extending the sidewalls above the standard 8'1" is also expensive.

    Just trying to get an answer to the question of whether or not getting the tall ceiling height by using the Gambrel roof would be significantly better or worse than getting it by extending the actual sidewalls.

    Thanks,


    audiopro
    Last edited by audiopro; 01-27-2019 at 03:15.

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    A studio/tiki bar sounds cool. I'll be right over when it's done.

    Without knowing a lot about structures, I'm thinking more interior volume of the Gambrel roof wins over the Gable roof. For a live room, you want volume. Plus, it has multiple angles to prevent standing waves.

    I agree, the scissor trusses won't make much of a difference acoustically.

    Nice project you got going there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chili View Post
    A studio/tiki bar sounds cool. I'll be right over when it's done.

    Without knowing a lot about structures, I'm thinking more interior volume of the Gambrel roof wins over the Gable roof. For a live room, you want volume. Plus, it has multiple angles to prevent standing waves.

    I agree, the scissor trusses won't make much of a difference acoustically.

    Nice project you got going there.
    Hi,

    Thanks. Maybe not really a tiki bar, but I am thinking about plumbing it for a jacuzzi if I can. Trying to get the funds together for this thing is not easy, but I hope to get it going.

    Are you a design guy? Yeah, the Gambrel roof has more volume than the Gable roof, but the Gable roof with the sidewalls extended has a lot of volume, too. So which is best? Having a hard time deciding, tbh.

    Any further thoughts on this would be appreciated.



    Best,

    audioforce
    Last edited by audiopro; 01-27-2019 at 23:55.

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    It's going to use a lot more energy heating and cooling the larger space. You're going to have to do something to the interior walls - studs and spaces and the inside of the outside sheathing (MDF?) will not be good for acoustics.
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbphotos View Post
    It's going to use a lot more energy heating and cooling the larger space. You're going to have to do something to the interior walls - studs and spaces and the inside of the outside sheathing (MDF?) will not be good for acoustics.
    Yeah, I'm probably going to get one of those mini split units for HVAC.

    I'll look at treatment for the space once its up so we can measure and listen. But I have to tell you that a lot of good music has been recorded in barns. "Studs and spaces" aren't really a problem acoustically from what I've seen and heard, particularly not in a space that big.

    I think they use something called "Smartside", that has some kind of radiant barrier. [I know, like, "Its got electrolytes!"]
    And there's a Housewrap.


    cheers,

    audioforce

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    If the building is going to have jacuzzi and kitchen space in it - your idea that "a lot of good music has been recorded in barns" falls flat. Somebody in the bathroom might not appreciate their sounds being heard in the space next door. Do you only want to record when there is no wind, rain, aircraft, animals, vehicles etc outside? If you spend money on equipment, you really must think about proper internal structures - it's just crazy to think you can record in an acoustically transparent space. You need isolation and you need treatment. Treatment can be added afterwards but the isolation structure is a big deal. I have a shed. I don't live in a big city but the thing leaks like a sieve acoustically!

    You sure you are not building a man cave with kitchen, jacuzzi, play space, and just want a rehearsal space for the odd jam, rather than something suitable for recording? A lot of money to sink into a dreadful recording space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    If the building is going to have jacuzzi and kitchen space in it - your idea that "a lot of good music has been recorded in barns" falls flat. Somebody in the bathroom might not appreciate their sounds being heard in the space next door. Do you only want to record when there is no wind, rain, aircraft, animals, vehicles etc outside? If you spend money on equipment, you really must think about proper internal structures - it's just crazy to think you can record in an acoustically transparent space. You need isolation and you need treatment. Treatment can be added afterwards but the isolation structure is a big deal. I have a shed. I don't live in a big city but the thing leaks like a sieve acoustically!

    You sure you are not building a man cave with kitchen, jacuzzi, play space, and just want a rehearsal space for the odd jam, rather than something suitable for recording? A lot of money to sink into a dreadful recording space.
    Ha, your entire post is ridiculous. You are completely off-topic and you just have no clue about this situation. FWIW, I've been at this for decades, pal and I know how to make it work. Do you? It sure doesn’t sound like you do.

    Anyhow, I’m out in the middle of nowhere on acreage. No need for a room in a room. Maybe a booth. And I said I was going to add treatment to the space.

    And what the hell atre you on about with your “somebody in the bathroom might not appreciate their sounds being heard” comment? That’s creepy. And dumb to boot.

    Your erroneous and sarcastic rant has nothing to do with the question. Typical internet wack.

    This is going to be a great recording space.

    So Take off.


    cheers,

    audiopro
    Last edited by audiopro; 01-28-2019 at 03:49.

  10. #10
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    Hey Audiopro, Rob does know what he's talking about. You're new here. so settle down and be open to ideas. What he means is that with no wall insulation or interior work, the sound of rain or wind (from outside!) is going to be very audible inside. Someone drives up in a loud truck while you're recording? The sound will get recorded. Someone flushes the toilet or runs the sink, the sound will get recorded.
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

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