reflective qualities of "luxury vinyl"

[zenpicker]

I've had a home studio for some years that should be a disaster acoustically but somehow has allowed me to do some recordings that sound surprisingly good. It breaks every rule: low ceilings, carpeting, little treatment of corners, hard walls and windows, you name it. But it works—I can't fathom how. I record close-miked acoustic guitar with an array of four condenser mikes, one for the room ambiance which I keep low in the mix. As an example, here's a raw, unprocessed recording of a base guitar track with the current setup: http://edwardhamlin.com/music_downloads/First%20Light%20-%20HAMLIN.wav The reverb is natural, emanating from the guitar's soundbox itself.

Now it's time to remodel, for a variety of reasons. I was going to lay new carpeting, but now am leaning toward a product that is new to me: "luxury vinyl flooring." Sounds horrific, I know, but it's not what you think of when you think vinyl.



This is a modern, high-tech product. In real life it is a pretty damned convincing simulation of real, satin-finish hardwood, with grain indentations and nice veining. Tons better looking than laminate and almost as good as manufactured hardwood at a fraction of the price. Advantages for my basement space are that it is 100% waterproof and does not require a subfloor - it goes right on the slab. That was key because of the low ceilings, which would feel even lower if I had to raise the level of the floor. So, despite the cringe-worthy name, I will probably go with it.

The acoustic effect will be interesting. I am curious if anyone's used this product in a studio, and if so how the acoustics are. My thinking in migrating from carpeting is that it's easier to play up or play down the brightness of a recording with strategic placement of area rugs on a hardwood floor; with carpeting you have no control. And it just feels and looks nicer (even if it's luxury vinyl).

Any experiences to share? Thanks in advance.

 

[DM60]

Don't confuse mixing area for tracking area. Tracking area, if it sounds good in the mic, it is good. Doesn't matter what anyone says. If it gives you the sound, it gives you the sound and that sound is captured.

But now for the mixing area, the thought is, a place where it is as neutral as possible so that when you listen to the mix down, it sounds consistent regardless of where it is played. Your mix is room agnostic so to speak.

 

[zenpicker]

That's a terrific point. Given my room (and skill!) limitations I long ago gave up on creating a really viable mixing space, I'm afraid. Essentially I never change the physical mike configuration or the track characteristics (pan, gain etc.) for the four mikes; once I got it all dialed in the way I wanted it, the mixing became pretty predictable and repeatable. Same mikes, same guitars, same room, same style of music, same player, same DAW settings...not much tends to go wrong. Then I take it to a mastering engineer and let them polish it in their perfect room.

 

[miroslav]

Advantages for my basement space are that it is 100% waterproof and does not require a subfloor - it goes right on the slab.

Be very, very careful with that approach.
Like you said, vinyl is 100% waterproof...every cement slab retains water....do the math.

The guy that did my hardwood flooring in my living area, and is also doing hardwood flooring in my new studio...said he's done vinyl on slab for people who wanted that, and they regretted it down the road...and he will never put vinyl direct on a slab, especially in a below-grade, basement environment.

They guys in in the stores will gladly sell it to you and tell you it's fine...but again...a waterproof surface on top of a surface that tends to hold moisture.
Do a subfloor if you want the vinyl. I hate the stuff, and they tried to sell me vinyl flooring several times now when I was deciding what to put on my floors...and I am SO glad I went with hardwood flooring. I mean...not for nothing, but "vinyl that looks like wood"...I just don't buy it.

 

[zenpicker]

Miroslav, thanks for that insight. I will research further. Our basement has always been bone dry (we live in Colorado, with very low humidity, and had no water intrusion at all during historic floods a few years back), but one cannot assume anything in an older home. Unfortunately I just don't think we can build up a subfloor without making the space really cramped-feeling, because of the low ceiling. So our options are limited.

As to the aesthetics...my first instinct was exactly yours, but I have had a sample panel of this flooring here for a week now and it just continues to impress me with its realism. Of course it's not wood - of course - but for a basement application it's pretty damned good. I'm picky and we have red oak throughout the rest of the house, but even I could live with this in the basement. None of which is to discount your moisture concerns, which I surely must research. Thanks so much for putting me on to that.

 

[mjbphotos]

My apartment is that vinyl wood-look flooring, it does look good. AS to acoustics - if you find it too reflective, put an area rug down.

 

[miroslav]

Miroslav, thanks for that insight. I will research further. Our basement has always been bone dry (we live in Colorado, with very low humidity, and had no water intrusion at all during historic floods a few years back), but one cannot assume anything in an older home. Unfortunately I just don't think we can build up a subfloor without making the space really cramped-feeling, because of the low ceiling. So our options are limited.

As to the aesthetics...my first instinct was exactly yours, but I have had a sample panel of this flooring here for a week now and it just continues to impress me with its realism. Of course it's not wood - of course - but for a basement application it's pretty damned good. I'm picky and we have red oak throughout the rest of the house, but even I could live with this in the basement. None of which is to discount your moisture concerns, which I surely must research. Thanks so much for putting me on to that.

Aesthetics aside and personal tastes...I would just consider the vinyl going directly on cement slab closely. I don't think you need to do like a formal, raised subfloor. I believe there is a variety of underlayment that can give you a good base, without raising the floor more than 1/2". I'll have to ask my flooring guy when I see him in a few days why he avoids vinyl direct to cement...but I know he told me of a couple of bad situations that he had to deal with that involved that combination...where the entire vinyl floor was coming up due to moisture, or something like that...and all my construction guys have said that cement, even when "dry", still holds a lot of moisture...it likes moisture.
Maybe if your house is real old...the cement has completely cured...but odds are, if it is real old, the slab was poured before they started putting down vapor barriers between the dirt and the slab, which is now the common approach. So that cement will pull moisture up from the dirt.

I think the vinyl can look fine, and there are areas where it probably makes sense over wood or stone tile.... I just don't care for it when it's used to simulate some other material. IOW, there are tons of vinyl tiles that don't try to look like wood or stone...they just look like vinyl tiles.... but that's just me.

 

[bluesfordan]

Vinyl is what we ended up replacing the dining room carpet with. The room was built off square from the house so a patterned linoleum was out of the question. The 100% waterproof was the deal maker for us as it is also the entry into the house that is most used. I'll be seeing the results in a few days and will take pictures. The samples look really good.