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Thread: Recording In A Completely Dead Room

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
    DOOD PLEASE!! I know that you are NOT a fucking idiot... Read what I wrote!

    Between .2 and .4 seconds!? fuck! Are you insane? What is your fucking point!?

    I SAID - IT DEPENDS ON THE ROOM DIMENSIONS... DID YOU SEE THE ROOM DIMENSIONS? Have you downloaded my room mode calculator? Do you expect all of your questions and work to be done by the teacher?? Do some fucking homework!


    You know...the problem with some of you acoustics experts...is that you have a hard time answering a question in simple terms.
    Simple questions are often answered with a bunch of links to very technical papers...or sometimes it's the "read my book" thing...and you then tell people to take all that technical info, do the math, and get the answers on their own.

    Well...it that's what we have to do...then WTF do we need to ask you "experts" any questions, and why do you bother hanging out on a home rec forum where most people want basic/simple answers...or at least clear answers...?

    Like I said...(and maybe you should read what YOU wrote)...when you said "unless your recording room is 5000 cubic feet or larger"...you didn't state any specific dimensions other than the volume.
    You didn't say..."unless your recording room is 5000 cubic feet or larger...depending on the actual dimensions".
    If you wanted the actual dimensions, then I would have said that my room is 25' x 33' with vaulted ceiling that tops out at just over 12'...hence the 8000-9000 cubic feet of volume.

    My question was pretty simple...do spaces over 5000, or like my own at 8000-9000 cubic feet, still require the RT60 time to fall somewhere in-between .2 and .4 secs...which is the time range most experts tend to give when they talk about a good RT60 value...
    ...or does the added volume not require the RT60 to be somewhere in that range, in which case, what kind of range would it be?

    Not sure what you are so angry about...is it the heat in Jakarta?

  3. #13
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    People who HAVE to swear and curse to make a point are very tiresome and also make the forum less nice to read. It also prevents me taking people who clearly know what they are on about seriously.

    You've got a huge chip on your shoulder because people don't seem to pick up on what you mean, and you just yell at them in the hope they'll take your advice, check it in and give up. When I did my teacher training, first groundings and basics were to not do all the things you have done. Maybe we don't understand. Maybe we understand poorly, but maybe if you had the patience to explain, we'd get it.

    I too got very confused. You refuse to answer questions and tell us to read the material - that simply doesn't help. In the other angry topic about the guy who wants to record strings you got very angry again.

    To get angry because people don't understand the material says more about the material than the reader I'm afraid. You've assumed we get it, and some of it is simply very difficult to convert to a practical context. Perhaps you could try just being nice, polite and helpful? That's genuinely the best way to get your expert knowledge across. Clearly you're in a terrible mood, angry and happy to be offensive. No idea why, but if I ran my business with an attitude like yours, I'd not have many repeat customers - probably you're really nice to your clients, because you absolutely cannot talk to them like you do to us. It's a happy forum normally - and I note your 'advice' to two people seems to have made them vanish!

    Pull your neck in a bit and you might get a bit more respect. Two topics, and on a scale of helpfulness you get a zero, and for upsetting people unnecessarily, ten out of ten.

    Mods - sorry for sounding off - feel free to delete, but his attitude just stinks!

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  5. #14
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    Oh...and the only reason I was asking my question, is because when I use a room mode calculator and input my dimensions...the "recommended" RT60 value is .6 and some were even higher, depending which reference/purpose is selected (EBU, DIN, etc...etc.)...which is also not very clear.
    I mean...what's the room difference between the "recommended" .6 and the "EBU listening room" at .34...or the "DIN Studio" at .4...etc...etc.

    That's why I find the suggestion to just "use the room mode calculator", vague at best, because there are still a lot of variables, and honestly, even using some "golden ratios"...you still end up with room nodes/nulls and again, a lot of variables.

    This is the one I was using, but I think they are all about the same: amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

    You end up with a lot of information...but still not a clear picture of what to do with the information, or how much of it is critical VS variable.

    [EDIT]

    The other point for me...and I really wasn't trying to turn this thread into a detailed discussion about my own studio space, rather I just had a couple of general questions...is that I'm trying to somewhat "thread the needle" between having a really good live/tracking room and also a mixing room, since this single, large space will serve both purposes.
    Now I'm sure the acoustics experts would say that's not easy to do or even the best thing to do, and to make each space specific to a singular purpose...but that's not possible, or actually, that's not something I desired to do...to break up the space...so I did some research and found a few studios that were using the "one room" approach with success...and I know it will take some specific treatment and some trial and error, but it can work out.
    Last edited by miroslav; 04-18-2020 at 14:29.

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    This is a home recording forum. The title is important. In a home, everything is about compromise and adaptation. Some have the expertise, finances and technology do be less compromising. Most don't.

    And experts also should know how to compromise and adapt when they are dealing with people who are like wise in that situation.

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  8. #16
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    I'll just stop posting here and you guys can just carry on...

    I said:
    Every room is different and the optimal RT60 per use case is always different. The very best general RT60 recommendation for ANY room - Mix or Recording - is the criteria listed in the 3 documents that I linked. yes, I know... TLDR (too long, didn't read) LOL!

    In a nutshell - Go to my resources page and download your favorite room mode calculator. Then go to the section just below the Bonello graph.
    optimal-rt60-jpg
    NOTE: This is for a room that is Length = 181", Width = 144", Height = 114"
    The calculations are IN the mode calculator.

    What does that mean? "Every room is different and the optimal RT60 per use case is always different."? It means that every room is different and the optimal RT60 per use case is always different.
    It means that there are no set values! It means that the optimal RT60 for ANY space will follow the formula. GET THE ROOM MODE CALCULATOR FROM MY WEBSITE - Resources page!! (I've already done all the work for you!!)

    And you don't have my room mode calculator, you are going to make mistakes in judgment. Yes, I know that it is human nature to get it quick and easy but that's why only 1% of the world has the money and only 3 - 5% of people have success.

    Try it on like a jacket. If you don't like it, take it off... But try it on first.
    Sometimes I come across intolerant. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why anyone would want to build a piece of shit for MORE money than a really nice place for less.
    John H. Brandt Acoustic Designs - ABOUT US - OUR WORK - RESOURCES "Twenty thousand dollars worth of Snap-On tools does not make you a Professional Diesel Mechanic"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
    And you don't have my room mode calculator, you are going to make mistakes in judgment. Yes, I know that it is human nature to get it quick and easy but that's why only 1% of the world has the money and only 3 - 5% of people have success.
    Isn't making music (and recording at home) a mistake in judgement right of the bat?

    I realize my question was perhaps a goofy one, but....

    do any successful musicians understand the science of room modes and resonances and optimal RT60 and all that? Which ones? Beethoven? Ringo? Justin Bieber?

    Anyways, I'm gonna slap up some egg cartons and call it a day.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1234 View Post
    Isn't making music (and recording at home) a mistake in judgement right of the bat?
    Of course. Just ask Billy Eilish and her brother.
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

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    I haven't read all the posts, so if I say something that was said, my apologies.

    Most of what I am going to say, many on this site would agree. If it sounds right, it is right. That is usually most people's on this sites final answer.

    In a room, regardless of size, acoustics, etc. Starts with the room and mic placement. If the room was perfect, then mic placement wouldn't matter. But no room is perfect everywhere. So you hunt and experiment. If I am in a corner, I find that place I like, and then treat, tame or what I can do to get it close to my objective.

    The problems with the science is that it assumes a perfect world, but music isn't about being perfect. I was watching a documentary on the remodeling of music hall in Cincy, OH. Now, these guys really know their stuff. They were going to each seat and tuning the room. Meaning there was not one setting for the whole room for every seat. I think that goes with mic placement.

    I think tuning the room for recording is good, but tuning an area where the sound is going to be recorded is more important. Here is the general sound of the room at different areas and here is the room here (where the mic is).

    But treating a room is more about tuning the room than it is about how perfect acoustically is the room. At the end of the day, I really don't care about the science (it is good to know), but what sound am I recording and how to it fit what I want and the mix.
    DM60 Tunes: The Collection

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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbphotos View Post
    Of course. Just ask Billy Eilish and her brother.
    They "record" 95% sampled music ITB, and he mixes on headphones for the most part...so for those kind of ITB productions, there's little point in talking about how they did it in their bedroom as though anything is possible in a bedroom setting.
    I'm sure if they tried actually recording guitars with amps, real pianos and drums, some real strings and brass, etc...it would have been a different bedroom story.

    When people think about a studio space and setup, there has to be some consideration of what type of music productions and styles of music they typically want to record there. If you're going to have lots of different things happening over time, then your space has to be all-accommodating.
    The guy just doing Hip-Hip...samples w/headphones...well, he doesn't need to think about the room all that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by DM60 View Post
    .

    I think tuning the room for recording is good, but tuning an area where the sound is going to be recorded is more important.
    What does that mean..."tuning an area"...? Are you talking about putting up some acoustic shields and that kind of stuff?

    You don't need a perfect room to record in...but at some point you're going to probably mix in the same space you record in with most home studios.
    So at that point, the whole room is in play, unless of course we're back to the all-ITB thing, and mixing w/headphones.

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