Power conditioner and sequential power up

bluesfordan

bluesfordan

Member
I was advised somewhere, and I can't find where, about a type of power conditioner that not only provided power conditioning but switched outlets to power up things like AI, mic pre, rack gear and powered monitors in an order (guessing pretty much like I typed it) that is easier on the equipment than random flicking of power switches on the units. It could have been here or somewhere else. I throw myself at the mercy of the collective sagacity of the forum.
 
bluesfordan said:
I was advised somewhere, and I can't find where, about a type of power conditioner that not only provided power conditioning but switched outlets to power up things like AI, mic pre, rack gear and powered monitors in an order (guessing pretty much like I typed it) that is easier on the equipment than random flicking of power switches on the units. It could have been here or somewhere else. I throw myself at the mercy of the collective sagacity of the forum.
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If you are on an underground mains service anywhere in UK (and EU for all I know!) don't bother with "conditioners" except for the barnet. I would also not worry about sequential switchng of the gear.

For a good ten years in my "studio" (aka, small, junk filled bedroom) all the kit was banged on and off by two switches on a 13A double outlet. That meant two desktop PCs, 2 Tannoy monitors, A&H ZED10, Blackstar HT-20, two VGA monitors (tho' one is now a 21" FSTV ) and a collection of wall rats and line lumps powering external drives and suchwhich...Never had any kind of problem, certainly nothing that could be blamed on the mains switching regime.

IMHO equipment should be designed to cope with not just a mains on/off cycle but also sudden mains loss and "brownouts". Both are very rare in UK.

If you have cash to spare for this maybe consider a UPS? At least one meaty enough to keep the PC and monitor going so you can save work in an orderly fashion. OPS'essss also have good on board filtering as a rule. If you want the last word/dog's danglers in mains purity go for a "continuous converting" UPS where mains is all generated from the battery all the time. Expensive mind and battery life will not be as long as the switch over types. They can also have noisy fans?

If you still hanker to switch gear individually buy one of the very high quality mains strips used in network comms cabs. I am also a big fan of wireless mains switches. They also have the safety asset that they fail off in the rare event of power loss.

Should have added...Outside UK and especially 60Hz/115V lands, mains juice is often not so clean and good so take advice from local studios and techs.

Dave.
 
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I'm not sure how it's easier, but I use it on mine simply because it means I only have one button to push to turn everything off or on, and at least that's being done in some way that makes a little sense, like turning on the monitor speakers after the interface to reduce any unexpected pops.

I have a UPS but it's only got external drives and the small computer on it to try and protect anything that's in progress when we have the inevitable blinking lights.
 
ecc83 said:
If you are on an underground mains service anywhere in UK (and EU for all I know!) don't bother with "conditioners" except for the barnet. I would also not worry about sequential switchng of the gear.

For a good ten years in my "studio" (aka, small, junk filled bedroom) all the kit was banged on and off by two switches on a 13A double outlet. That meant two desktop PCs, 2 Tannoy monitors, A&H ZED10, Blackstar HT-20, two VGA monitors (tho' one is now a 21" FSTV ) and a collection of wall rats and line lumps powering external drives and suchwhich...Never had any kind of problem, certainly nothing that could be blamed on the mains switching regime.

IMHO equipment should be designed to cope with not just a mains on/off cycle but also sudden mains loss and "brownouts". Both are very rare in UK.

If you have cash to spare for this maybe consider a UPS? At least one meaty enough to keep the PC and monitor going so you can save work in an orderly fashion. OPS'essss also have good on board filtering as a rule. If you want the last word/dog's danglers in mains purity go for a "continuous converting" UPS where mains is all generated from the battery all the time. Expensive mind and battery life will not be as long as the switch over types. They can also have noisy fans?

If you still hanker to switch gear individually buy one of the very high quality mains strips used in network comms cabs. I am also a big fan of wireless mains switches. They also have the safety asset that they fail off in the rare event of power loss.

Should have added...Outside UK and especially 60Hz/115V lands, mains juice is often not so clean and good so take advice from local studios and techs.

Dave.
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unfortunately, stateside underground mains service is still quite rare and only found in recently (not more than maybe 15 years) built developments. As a matter of fact, I was walking after supper last night and was particularly attuned to just how many freaking trees in my neighborhood are looming over the pole lines and should be cut down especially the ones in less than healthy condition. As I've mentioned elsewhere, my family has been in the residence for over 50 years and I've seen more power failures in the second 25 years than the first 25, and all the 24-hour plus blackouts are from the '90s onward. The utilities are hampered by short-sighted people who resist every attempts to prune or remove trees as preventative maintenance and then they cry and hue "Oh why can't you do something about all these power failures?" after every major storm.

I'll probably get something like a Furman conditioner and use that to plug power strips into and then I can have it all on one switch. Maybe once I finally lose an entire session I'll get an UPS, you know, learn the hard way :D Chances are I wouldn't be banging away in my studio if the weather was that dicey in the first place but you never know when some loon decides to park their car at high speed into a utility pole. I almost called it a telephone pole but that would just be confusing to a wireless generation.
 
"I'll probably get something like a Furman conditioner and use that to plug power strips into and then I can have it all on one switch. Maybe once I finally lose an entire session I'll get an UPS, you know, learn the hard way Chances are I wouldn't be banging away in my studio if the weather was that dicey in the first place but you never know when some loon decides to park their car at high speed into a utility pole. I almost called it a telephone pole but that would just be confusing to a wireless generation."

Hmm, the cheapset Furman I can find is around $100. For a lttle more you can get an APS* UPS rated at 550VA and that would run just about everything in quite a large studio audiowise. You might not want to plug in a BIG Mother valve amp as well but folks tend to turn those on as and when?

As I mentioned, a UPS has to have some degree of filtering not least to prevent spurious switching so you get crap protection and a ~20 minute window during which to save your work.

I am constantly surprised at the poor mains supply the richest nation on earth suffers! Our lekky was of course a HUGE mess less than a hundred years ago but that "dirty word" nationlization saved it. The distribution, the National Grid was built almost cost no object and the present private companies* inherited some superb infrastucture. Some of our local sub stations are marvel to behold! The result is we enjoy very clean, very reliable and constant power.

*Said companies dare not, I think, "cheap out" on the present system although I have read that they do not have a ready solution should one of the really big sub transformers blow? There is also some concern that spare capacity has been reduced to save cost (aka pay shareholders and CEOs millions). Some think tanks have said that if/when UK goes virtually all electric vehicles the present supply will not cope?

*Ooops! Only just on second Joe! APS are reckoned the best of the UPS units but there are cheaper ones.

Dave.
 
Err? By "crap protection" I of course mean, protection against mains borne crap. NOT rubbish protection!

Dave.
 
bluesfordan said:
I'll probably get something like a Furman conditioner...
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Furman makes a lot of different products, not just the typical single-space rack "conditioner" you see musicians using with their small studio rack or gig rack.
They also have sequential powering units too...but you won't find them in the less expensive power conditioners.

Personally...I think the sequential powering is only necessary in large installations where walking around to individual devices would be difficult and maybe even not possible if they are mounted out of reach, etc....but for a studio, you just follow the same routine.
I've been doing that for many years now...and once you get your sequence down, and do it enough times...it's pretty automatic and not something you even think about. I've got a lot of gear, and it's not an inconvenience to manually power things on...and off...in a set sequence.

AFA power conditioning, there are different levels, and it all depends how far you want to take it.
In my studio, my power distribution starts with a 20A relay that is used to prevent instant power-on following a power off situation due to storm/electrical outage...then comes a "sacrificial" surge/spike protection unit...that is then followed by a voltage regulation unit...and finally there is a balanced power unit.
All the units (except the initial relay) include additional surge protection and AC noise suppression, but the balance unit is the real deal when it comes to providing clean power to my audio gear. That's what removes anything that gets by the first couple of units.
Everything is design for 20A operation.

I also have a second set of all of the above...for backup purposes.
It may be overkill for most of your smaller home studios...but if you are looking to have very clean power and also a high degree of surge/spike protection, that's what it takes.
Oh...my computer and LCD screens run off of a UPS system. I don't recommend or use a UPS for any audio gear. The only ones that provide true sine-wave power are expensive. The ones most people buy/use for $100-$200 don't provide true sine-wave power.
It may not matter to some...but again, if you want the cleanest power for your audio gear with a high level of protection...then you have to follow-through from start to finish.
 
I bow of course to Miroslav's huge experience but please follow my logic for a moment re audio interfaces at least?

In a typical small studio the AI will likely be USB bus powered and if you are happy to power a PC (which draws a g'dawful current waveform!) from a UPS then the DC to that AI is as clean and stabe as can be got.
Even an AI that is also "rat" powered such as my 8i6 uses an SMPSU and so does not care about mains waveforms and even if it did, the AI uses DC-DC conveters to derive audio spook and CPU volts.

I have a cheap 'ass Maplin 500Va inverter, I shall try to hook that up soon and see what'appen! Do you think a top line Sony Dolby S cassette machine would be a good test?

Dave.
 
We've got one of these in a rack in one venue - mainly because the inrush current for the amp racks trips the breaker when power is applied to them all at once. it sits in the rack and when power is applied the outlets power up one by one - so we've got the amps plugged into the sockets on the back. It has a couple of LEDs in too and a voltage meter. you push the button and they turn on, one by one - and same thing on off - which we don't really need. We have the first outlet feeding the mixer and FOH gear, so the nasty click/crack happens when the amps are not yet on, and on power down it powers down after the amps have gone.
Trojan SPS06 15A Power Sequencer - Studiospares

It's a UK product with UK sockets but there must be a US version of the idea?
 
rob aylestone said:
We've got one of these in a rack in one venue - mainly because the inrush current for the amp racks trips the breaker when power is applied to them all at once. it sits in the rack and when power is applied the outlets power up one by one - so we've got the amps plugged into the sockets on the back. It has a couple of LEDs in too and a voltage meter. you push the button and they turn on, one by one - and same thing on off - which we don't really need. We have the first outlet feeding the mixer and FOH gear, so the nasty click/crack happens when the amps are not yet on, and on power down it powers down after the amps have gone.
Trojan SPS06 15A Power Sequencer - Studiospares

It's a UK product with UK sockets but there must be a US version of the idea?
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They are poorly designed amplifiers IMHO then Rob!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I bow of course to Miroslav's huge experience but please follow my logic for a moment re audio interfaces at least?

In a typical small studio the AI will likely be USB bus powered and if you are happy to power a PC (which draws a g'dawful current waveform!) from a UPS then the DC to that AI is as clean and stabe as can be got.
Even an AI that is also "rat" powered such as my 8i6 uses an SMPSU and so does not care about mains waveforms and even if it did, the AI uses DC-DC conveters to derive audio spook and CPU volts.

I have a cheap 'ass Maplin 500Va inverter, I shall try to hook that up soon and see what'appen! Do you think a top line Sony Dolby S cassette machine would be a good test?

Dave.
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You don't have to bow...just curtsy. :p

So in your example...I would agree, just with the UPS because the AI is not being powered from the UPS or outlet.

I don't know what people have in their home setups, and I think each person needs to consider their setup and proceed from there, rather then adopt what someone else is doing at face value.
In my case...I use converters that need AC power, not USB...and their communication with the DAW computer is through PCI cards.

Also...even in the small home setup, you don't just have a computer and a USB powered AI in most cases. People use guitar amps, preamps, they may have tube mics that need power, or phantom power for other condenser mics...there may other analog gear...and let's not forget your studio speaker monitors.
All those things benefit from clean analog power (not cheap UPS power)...and they should all be protected too.
 
6 x 2.5KW RMS amps (not class D, so with big transformers) Input rush current means two of them trip a 16A type B breaker. Once on, of course the current drops to hardly anything - and all 6 going full steam-ish won't trip the breaker with continuous demand. start up, via a switch is a no-no.
 
rob aylestone said:
6 x 2.5KW RMS amps (not class D, so with big transformers) Input rush current means two of them trip a 16A type B breaker. Once on, of course the current drops to hardly anything - and all 6 going full steam-ish won't trip the breaker with continuous demand. start up, via a switch is a no-no.
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Yes, big jobs Rob but! Even more that means they were not cheap? All it needs is a relay in the mains circuit, a suitable chunk resistor to slow the juice down and a triple five timer. Of course, these days they would use a CPU to do the timing and THAT would FU!

Flip me mate! I did this to a grotty Tuac 100W amp twenty years ago. Not because of inrush current but to prevent the seriously loud switch on CRACK! Mind you I just used a transistor and CR circuit to give about 2secs delay.

Miroslav (bobs accordingly for we are not worthy) I agree people must sort out their own situation but I firmy believe that the makers of ALL sorts of electronic equipment should design them to cope with most of the worlds power supplies. This is even easier these days since the maturing of SMPSUs which have to have serious filtering to stop the RF crap leaking out of both ends!

But then that is just one of the hobby horses of this old, med ridden valve jockey!

It was debated here in some depth (and it wee bit testily!) but balanced mains is not really practical or safe (for third persons) in UK. It IS used in certain medical/science premises but these are of course very strickly controlled. It is in fact very hard to source a 230V centre tapped transformer in UK.

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
I like Jim Brown's paper. It's ten years old but still worth reading.
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It suffers a bit from the "drinking from a firehose" problem, at least for me. Lots of good information, but it could benefit from being separated into chapters, having a table of contents and index - at least it might be more accessible if you just wanted to get info about the question raised by the OP.

As a quasi-relevant aside, it does mention the problem of remembering the state before the power went out. My conditioner that has the sequenced on/off feature does not remember, so if there is a power failure, it remains off. Which is Ok, because I probably don't want stuff automatically turning back on if we've had an outage, since it can be a series of off/on/off/on before they get everything re-routed and working again stably around here sometimes. Anyway, the moral is, don't put your UPS on the other side of something that will not power back on itself, if you really want the UPS to only be used for short outages, because it might remain on for days when the outage is only a minute! (DAMHIKT!)
 
keith.rogers said:
As a quasi-relevant aside, it does mention the problem of remembering the state before the power went out. My conditioner that has the sequenced on/off feature does not remember, so if there is a power failure, it remains off. Which is Ok, because I probably don't want stuff automatically turning back on if we've had an outage, since it can be a series of off/on/off/on before they get everything re-routed and working again stably around here sometimes. Anyway, the moral is, don't put your UPS on the other side of something that will not power back on itself, if you really want the UPS to only be used for short outages, because it might remain on for days when the outage is only a minute! (DAMHIKT!)
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yikes. that admonition about the UPS sounds strangely familiar, I think I heard of it happening to someone I know. No, not me :D

and yes, the old flickering while the circuit breakers in the mains system decide who's picking up the tab and who's (in)conveniently forgotten their wallet definitely happens here although not as much of late. Now it is more like either it's on solidly or it's out for hours/days at a time. Although two years in a row the transformer right outside my house at the foot of my driveway has had incidents of critters crisping themselves on some sort of uber huge fuse like device (blue jay one time and squirrel another). I watched the lineman fix it once and it was an astounding simple job, er, well not complex anyway. I wasn't the one elevating up in a bucket towards thousands of volts right over my helmet. He used some sort of fiberglass pole with a loop/hook and reattached some thing that looked like a big spring. I think it took longer to clip his safety harness and grounding cables than the actual reset job.
 
I placed a rack mount 8 position power switch right under my patch bay. I sit down at the desk & can turn on any combination of my gear. For instance I can play my keys with just powering them, the mixer & monitors. I can turn them all on for the whole studio to be up. I have an additional Furman in my rack that turns on all my outboard gear. All of this is powered by 2 in wall sockets. All are reachable by my seat. Other than the Furman all I have are 2 large surge protectors for the computer stuff. I used to use a UPS but it died & I never replaced the battery. We don’t lose power here that often anyway.
 
ladewd said:
I placed a rack mount 8 position power switch right under my patch bay. I sit down at the desk & can turn on any combination of my gear. For instance I can play my keys with just powering them, the mixer & monitors. I can turn them all on for the whole studio to be up. I have an additional Furman in my rack that turns on all my outboard gear. All of this is powered by 2 in wall sockets. All are reachable by my seat. Other than the Furman all I have are 2 large surge protectors for the computer stuff. I used to use a UPS but it died & I never replaced the battery. We don’t lose power here that often anyway.
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do you have a picture of this device? I'll have plenty of space in my new desk when I get it assembled.
 
bluesfordan said:
do you have a picture of this device? I'll have plenty of space in my new desk when I get it assembled.
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I think he's talking about something like this:

Technical Pro SURGE9 Rackmount 9-Outlet Power Strip SURGE9 B&H


I use something similar in one of my racks for the handful of rack gear pieces that don't have front panel power switches...and reaching to the back of the rack is not easy.
TBH...I have no idea why this would be of any value for racked gear pieces where you CAN simply use the power switch on its front panel...and you just turn them on in sequence and/or as needed.
 
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