New studio space...considering my options.

A good storm may blow my house down, but that slab ain't goin' nowhere!

You'll be able to pitch a tent on the slab when the house is gone. :p

A guy I used to work with just moved down there...I forget which town...he bought a new construction house, it looked nice, though I never asked what/how the foundation was done....I didn't realize it was that involved down there, I just assumed there was some areas below water level that you had to avoid the basements.

So when you say "South Texas"...how far north/east/west do you need to go before you get out of that ancient sea bed?
What about places like Austin...? Probably one of the few Texas cities I at one time thought of moving it, or San Antonio...no disrespect intended to the other places in Texas, there's a lot of nice towns, I just for some reason thought those two would be cool, especially Austin because it appears to have a growing artist community.
Still...it seems that Texas is now becoming the new Florida...lots of people moving there to retire and/or because cost of living is cheaper.
 
You'll be able to pitch a tent on the slab when the house is gone. :p

A guy I used to work with just moved down there...I forget which town...he bought a new construction house, it looked nice, though I never asked what/how the foundation was done....I didn't realize it was that involved down there, I just assumed there was some areas below water level that you had to avoid the basements.

So when you say "South Texas"...how far north/east/west do you need to go before you get out of that ancient sea bed?
What about places like Austin...?

You can pretty much tell what used to be swamp and see just by looking at the current eleveation. That's why we have so much oil.

Austin and San Antonio are both hilly, Austin especially. It's almost like a hot version of the pacific northwest. Both cities are more expensive to live in than the greater Houston area and the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex.

Texas has an area called "The Hill Country" which includes Austin, The area is very desirable for retirement homes and vacation homes but since there is little in the way of major industry it's an area that population remains lower. Not enough jobs, basically.
 
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Re "Water Table"?

Mum & Dad's cellar would flood to about a foot if we had heavy rain over an extended period. The floor was cobbles but they "had a man in" and he found there was a stream below that he knew ran through that part of town (house is in middle of Somerset st and side of a gentle slope. Google for map "Racecourse Northampton UK") He put in ceramic ducts and the whole floor was concreted to about 8" above the cobbles.

Lower parts of our town have suffered serious flooding (I'm ok barring the Second Deluge at NN5 5Pguess) Far Cotton and parts of St James. and STILL the money grubbing bastard developers want to build on the flood plains and woodland that absorb and slow the 'king water!

Dave.
 
Update...

So it's been awhile since anything new has happened. I've met a couple of times with the contractor, and again today, and we finally got the thing going, since I put some money in his hands. We are meeting with the architect in a couple of days to kick things off, so we can get the plans and permits going...but we do have one small snag...the property line setback limit will be exceeded, so most likely a variance will be required, which I will need to go before the town board to get it...but considering the location, and that nothing is really going to be affected by this build, and the fact that my neighbor couldn't care less...odds are very good that I will get my variance.

So...with all that moving forward and permits approved...we are now looking for at best, a mid-August start, which will give me a finished room by end of the year...or at worst, a late September start if things drag out, in which case I will have a sealed and insulated structure, along with the added bathroom work...and then the final finish work on the interior will be completed during the early winter, of course, the holidays are going to be in the middle of that.

The one thing that's been decided on is the use of resilient sound clips on the studs, with hat channels going into the clips, and then double 5/8" or maybe one 5/8" and one 1/2" layers of drywall attached to the clips and decoupled from the studs and the floor...and the same on the cathedral ceiling, with the walls and ceiling also decoupled from each other.
In using the clips, the hat channel and double drywall...the insulation in the cavity is then less critical for soundproofing purposes, and can be just the usual pink rolls of fiberglass, but of course, stuffed to the maxing rating for heat/cooling purposes.

After that, the acoustic treatment will be less of a problem, and will be more for fine-tuning the room, since both the shear room volume and also the decoupled drywall will provide a good acoustic environment. Plus, I plan to do some final layers of wood finish and some stone veneer stuff on the walls before I ever get to adding any actual traps... I think for certain there will be some traps across the ceiling, and also the corners...but that part will be "easy", because I can add a few, then add some more if needed..etc.

Anyway...I finally feel like we got the train moving forward after the last couple of months of back-n-forth, and trying to find the right contractor. This guy is totally cool (he's also a drummer) about all these "weird" audio requirements that I'm tossing out at him, and has no problem. Sometimes he asks me twice...like if I'm sure about needing double 5/8" drywall, 'cuz it will be more costly, and it's heavier to hang, twice...but when I say that's what I want...he's totally OK, no argument, and he likes that it adds some interesting elements to the project. Same thing with the installation of the resilient sound clips and channels...it's something new for him, but he finds it interesting and is happy to comply with my needs.
 
Great news! Now forgive me Miroslav but I worry...about details...like. Does the sparks you will use know about compliant cabling so that a rigid cable does not cross a wall/wall boundary and "short circuit" your carefully planned acoustic isolation?

Dave.
 
Dont forget wiring channels in the floor/walls for audio when you get with the architect. Good news though
 
Does the sparks you will use know about compliant cabling so that a rigid cable does not cross a wall/wall boundary and "short circuit" your carefully planned acoustic isolation?

Not really following you when you say "cross a wall/wall boundary and 'short circuit'... "...?

Also not sure about "rigid cable"...?
The electric cable is not really rigid, I mean, it's quite bendable, and since it's all internal, it's not going to be clad in metal.

There are going to be basically two electric systems...one will be typical "home" wiring that takes care of the required outlets, and the lighting and the stuff that will feed the HVAC unit, etc.
The other system is going to be specifically for feeding the audio gear. There's going to be just a single 20A outlet (with a second spare) that my power distro boxes (surge protection, voltage regulation, and balanced power) are going to plug into. Those things are daisy-chained one into the next, etc.

My only conduits will be from those power distro boxes out to my gear racks and console, etc...and also some running to a few points on the walls and into the iso-booth. Basically like long extension cords from the power distro to these other locations, so I can plug my guitar amps and any other movable audio gear in a few different parts of the studio space.

AFA the acoustic aspect...the outlets in the walls will automatically be decoupled because the walls are decoupled. The stuff through the floor, same thing, because the floor will be basically framed/floating, and not tied to the walls, it will only be tied to the slab...the dry walls will not touch the slab...so pretty much everything will be decoupled from each other, so to speak.
I won't need channels in the walls all that much, because the lines will run mostly through the raised floor...so only in those spots where the floor is up to the wall, that small bit of wall below the floor height will have an access hole, with caulk/sealant around it of course...and the lines will then run up and into the wall to where they need to go. That small bit of "coupling" where the cable from under the floor ends up on a wall plate...is not going to be an issue.

I'm still in the early planning stage, and the contractor said we don't need to worry at this moment about those things, since we will be able to make adjustments once the basic foundation and framing is done. So there's plenty of time to work it out, and I'm still having some conversations with a couple of acoustics specialty shops that have all that material, along with a lot of info on what's the right way to do it...plus I have my "Home Recording Studio - Build it like the Pros" by Rod Gervais book as a ready reference... :) ...though I have to say, he may be talking to home rec people, but his book pretty much talks about extreme pro construction.

I mean, if you followed all the info to the letter...you're talking 5 times more cost than most home rec people could afford to do...but there is a lot of room adjustment. He's basically showing how to build it the absolute best/perfect way...from the ground up, and also, much of it assumes that you are either building a multi-room facility (even though it's a home studio)...and that you are in some area where there are other structures and neighbors, so there's a lot of focus how to mitigate the sound transmission issues...lots of double walls and room-in-room nonsense that I really don't need to consider, and neither would most home studio situations if you have an environment that is free of those potential issues.
 
"Not really following you when you say "cross a wall/wall boundary and 'short circuit'... "...?"

Ah. Well, probably med ridden old amp jockey talking bllx but..Here in UK the standard mains wiring is grey PVC 2.5mm cross/sec' with earth and the resultant cable quite stiff, especially when cold.

If such a cable were used between two acoustically de-coupled rooms it would transfers sound if solidly fixed to a joist/noggin say.

Industrial premises tend to use "Tri-rated conduit cable" Three single wires in a conduit and so these could be looped and put in a flexible section of conduit so as to form a "stop" to cable born vibration.

Same principle as putting a loop/knot at the mic end of a mic cable.

But, as I say, probably bllx and you have it covered.

Dave.
 
Also! UK of course runs "ring mains". For those not in the know, a 2.5mill cable exits the fuse box (we call it a Consumer Unit), goes around a floor and returns to the CU. Mains outlets, usually twins and switched and positioned strategically (ha!) around the room. There is no limit to the number of outlets and of course our plugs are fused.

Now, some say the "ring" induces hum currents in sensitive gear? Others that since the send and return current must be equal and opposite, a ring is quieter than spurs.

I have no idea if the matter has ever been properly evaluated?

Dave.
 
Great news! Now forgive me Miroslav but I worry...about details...like. Does the sparks you will use know about compliant cabling so that a rigid cable does not cross a wall/wall boundary and "short circuit" your carefully planned acoustic isolation?

Dave.

Visual aid.

build_05-o6dAMQAbmjNqqo.gI8_JuMJ8beaXAwUC.jpg
 
sometimes I think it would be less expensive just to rent some time at a recording studio facility :laughings:

Buuuut, that still doesn't stop me from wanting my own private studio.
 

None of that applies to my build. :)

How To Install Resilient Sound Isolation Clips

This page will give you and idea how the drywall gets installed and is decoupled from the studs, and from the other sections (ceiling, floor).
So there are no hard connections between studs, joists or floor to the double layered drywall.
There are brackets for adding electric receptacles and the wiring is attached to the studs...so there are minimal transmission points, which are additionally dampened with acoustic caulk, etc.

The only thing I have to sort out is maybe the baseboard heat plumbing. It will most likely be connected to the decouple drywall and hat channels...so the only hard connection is where it enters from the utility/heat source...but that will be only one spot, and internal, so sound transmission is not going to be affected in any negative way. I don't have another studio or neighbors on the other side of the walls.
The primary focus is to reduce the noise transmission to the exterior walls, and ceiling/roof...etc....which will all be handled by the decoupled walls, the insulation in the walls, an of course, some added acoustic treatments on the interior for the final, finished layer.

My cooling will be done by a ductless AC system, with a single passive vent system running down the center beam at the top of the ceiling....and that system is only for the studio, so there are no ducts/channels to spread any noise, or whatever in/out to other rooms, etc.
 
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sometimes I think it would be less expensive just to rent some time at a recording studio facility :laughings:

Buuuut, that still doesn't stop me from wanting my own private studio.

Going to a commercial facility is great, if you can afford a really good one, and if you have your shit together, song material wise and performance wise.
You would need a band of sorts...or pay for studio musicians, unless you had the time and budget to do one track at a time yourself while the clock $$ ticked away.

So you would want to go in, bang it out, and that's it. You might have a budget or time to make some tweaks during the process...but it's usually a pretty defined start/end timeframe...and then what you have is locked in.
A month or two later, when you want to record some more...you would have to repeat that and again, toss down more cash and then live with the end result that was achieved in the timeframe your budget allowed.

There's a good reason and a time to do things like that...but it can be costly, and it has it's creative limitations...which can be welcome, but a lot of people also don't do well under the gun.

The real point here is that building your own studio isn't about just the need to track a few songs...to get one album done...etc. It's about having a permanent audio playground, at your disposal 24/7, with no limitations. You would have to live in a commercial studio to have that same opportunity. :)

For me, this is also about the end of a 30+ year journey. This build will be the 5th iteration of my private studio space, and probably the last one, unless I hit the lottery and could afford to just go and buy a commercial million dollar facility. :D

Each of the previous studio versions were building blocks...getting more and more involved, and more improved. I currently have pretty much all the gear one could need or think of for a good pro setup, but of course, some gear can still be improved on and upgraded...and the amount of gear has outgrown my current space.
Oh, I could live with my current space, and it wouldn't be a real bad thing...but I have the opportunity to now have the kind of space that would really complement the gear, and vice-versa....not to mention, my own knowledge and skills have also improved with each studio revision...so this is really a long-term dream coming to reality, as best as I can make it happen, and TBH, it will be quite good, and while there will still be plenty of million dollar studios to drool over...when finished, my new studio space won't be too shabby, to say the least. ;)

So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that no big wrenches get tossed into the gears during the building and installation process.
 
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None of that applies to my build. :)

How To Install Resilient Sound Isolation Clips

This page will give you and idea how the drywall gets installed and is decoupled from the studs, and from the other sections (ceiling, floor).
So there are no hard connections between studs, joists or floor to the double layered drywall.
There are brackets for adding electric receptacles and the wiring is attached to the studs...so there are minimal transmission points, which are additionally dampened with acoustic caulk, etc.

The only thing I have to sort out is maybe the baseboard heat plumbing. It will most likely be connected to the decouple drywall and hat channels...so the only hard connection is where it enters from the utility/heat source...but that will be only one spot, and internal, so sound transmission is not going to be affected in any negative way. I don't have another studio or neighbors on the other side of the walls.
The primary focus is to reduce the noise transmission to the exterior walls, and ceiling/roof...etc....which will all be handled by the decoupled walls, the insulation in the walls, an of course, some added acoustic treatments on the interior for the final, finished layer.

My cooling will be done by a ductless AC system, with a single passive vent system running down the center beam at the top of the ceiling....and that system is only for the studio, so there are no ducts/channels to spread any noise, or whatever in/out to other rooms, etc.

Seems to be a Pliteq product.Might end up having one of my old tires in your wall.

G
 
Seems to be a Pliteq product.Might end up having one of my old tires in your wall.

As long as there's no mud on it...it will be OK. :)

I've looked at multiple "sound/acoustics" websites...read Rod Gervais' book...and the RSIC clips and the metal channels are pretty much described in all of them as the way to go for drywall installation. I'm sure there are more uber-pro commercial ways to build a million dollar studio from the ground up, not to mention the types of products that could available (I was just looking at this months Mix magazine "Class of 2019" studio builds)...but as always, expectations and plans have to coincide with assigned budgets...so for what I'm building (which is going to cost a bit), this is kinda the level and type of construction that will yield the best results from what I'm seeing. Plus, there's still some more details to be planned out, and I haven't even begun to pick out the final, finished treatments that will go inside, which will add to the overall results.
 
As long as there's no mud on it...it will be OK. :)

I've looked at multiple "sound/acoustics" websites...read Rod Gervais' book...and the RSIC clips and the metal channels are pretty much described in all of them as the way to go for drywall installation. I'm sure there are more uber-pro commercial ways to build a million dollar studio from the ground up, not to mention the types of products that could available (I was just looking at this months Mix magazine "Class of 2019" studio builds)...but as always, expectations and plans have to coincide with assigned budgets...so for what I'm building (which is going to cost a bit), this is kinda the level and type of construction that will yield the best results from what I'm seeing. Plus, there's still some more details to be planned out, and I haven't even begun to pick out the final, finished treatments that will go inside, which will add to the overall results.

Yes,noticed a lot of lipstick and mascara going on.Heavy on the interior design with pretty much the same stuff under the skin.
Sound waves won't know the difference it's a boundary surface to them.
All figured out decades ago.

YouTube

G
 

I just read some stuff about Funkhaus in Tape Op a few months back, it was another guy that uses the place.
I don't know how old that video is, but in the magazine, there were some comments about the uncertainty of its future at this time...that it will need a serious investment to be maintained and/or brought back to full operation.

The place is just amazing, and even the video doesn't really show how big it is and that it's a complex of studios and rooms, plus the big hall, etc.

It's places like that, and of course, many of the "Class of" studios shown in Mix over the years that have always provided me with both big dreams, but also great ideas about treatment options, etc. I mean...under the skin, they have their mechanics, but it's important how a place also looks.
The way they married the aesthetics with functionality in the Funkhaus is just beautiful. mostly natural finishes of wood and stone.
God how I hate seeing the project/home studios these days, basically covered it traps...they look awful. Yeah, there's a need, but I think people could take a little time and effort and try to build in some different treatments instead of just hanging 40-50 traps on every surface until there really is no aesthetic worth seeing.

That one thing I'm hoping to do with this new build is minimize that kind of treatment approach, and hopefully allow the room to work without stuffing the shit out of it with traps. :D

I've already got the angled ceiling in the design, and I am considering doing a very small split angle on the back wall too...kind like when you look up at a 'V' ceiling, and then doing something similar to the back wall...but it would not be perceivable. Basically find the center point, and then "split" at that point and bring each of the wall ends in by like just 1-2", creating a horizontal V, and then in that split center, doing a wall to ceiling diffuser of some sort, plus a couple more smaller ones on each side...but the center one would hide the "split".
I would leave the side walls straight and parallel, and on them, also add some diffusion.

It might be too much for the contractor to deal with...he was already asking me at least 3 times if we really needed to do the double 5/8" drywall, and if the clips and furring channels would hold (which they will)...but to do that split V on the back wall, the studs would then need to be furred out in some staggered way before the furring channels are attached. It might be too complicated.
If not, I will just do more diffusion...which like in the Funkhaus video, is the better way to go if you can, and I'll just stick some heavy bass trapping in the back corners.

Most likely though, I will hang some traps from the ceiling which will remain drywall, that way I can avoid flutter echo. I think rather then hanging them the typical 4" off the ceiling surface...I will use wire, and suspend then further, that way the traps hang parallel to the floor, and can catch reflection going up, and whatever comes off the ceiling surface.

At any rate, I will be focused on the aesthetics quite a lot, rather than just loading up treatment with that "more is better" mindset.
I want to room to be multi-purpose good...tracking and mixing, so I want to find the best balance for both.
 
The "V" was quite popular in the old days.Both vertical and horizontal.
Check out RCA Studio B and EastWest Studios for inspiration.
I prefer the utilitarian look.Form follows function.

G
 
I prefer the utilitarian look.Form follows function.

I don't care for many of the very ornate studios...or the very modern/sterile looking ones, devoid of any color.
My favorite studios are ones that "got some wood"... :D ...nice floor, some wood diffusers, a few reclaimed wood beams here and there, etc...but otherwise clean lines with natural looking finishes, nothing overdone and looking like a modern art museum. :p

I wasn't aware of that about RCA Studio B.
There was a nice spread in one of the magazines about Studio A and Dave Cobb resurrecting it back to much of it's original glory.

The "V" thing was just something that popped into my head as I was considering the saltbox shape of my planned studio design, with the high wall being at the back, and then I thing maybe it would be cool to also make that back wall into a very subtle "V"...which combined with the ceiling "V" and the way the back will open up higher with a 10' wall, while the front with the longer sloped side of the roof/ceiling will be an 8' wall....should make for good natural diffusion.

I'm meeting with the architect for the first time tomorrow...and the contractor will be here too...so I may toss that slight "V" idea at them and see if it would be a fairly straight forward thing to do. I know if you just frame it like that, then it's all easy from there...but that wall is an outside wall, and I want it to be straight on the outside...so I think to get the inside wall to be a mild "V"...we would have to "shim" out the ends and do some kind of wedging to the studs before applying the clips, furring channels and drywall.
It's an idea...:)
 
I see.I was assuming the "V" after the fact on top of the drywall(finish carpentry).
I like wood.You like wood.Some wood.
RCA Victor studio Montreal.Classic polys.

G
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