New studio space...considering my options.

Chop Chop
Need to get that concrete poured.
It's getting COLD.

G.

Naa...not too bad around here yet. We got a couple of cold nights into the weekend...but then it will be back up in the mid-60's for the next couple of weeks.
The ground won't even get close to freezing until late December. You get sometimes a couple of colder nights/days in November where maybe the top 1" freezes, but not enough to be a problem for footings and foundations.

Besides...it's the contractors problem. I'm not going to be doing anything out in the cold. :D
He already said it's not a problem...the foundation will be done before the end of October, and the framing will only take another week.
I think the bigger issue is if we get like endless heavy rain...that could be a problem for any outside work.

Talked to him today...he already put the call out to his mason to see when he can start the excavating.
 
Another Update....

Met with my contractor...paid him the first installment...excavation soon to start...but we made one BIG change to the project!

After talking with him about all the drywall decoupling and the use of clips, hat channel, with Green Glue in-between the double drywall, and the need to leave gaps between the ceiling/walls/floor drywall section...etc..etc...I kinda mentioned that it's benefit is to simulate a double wall...a room within room construction.
The minute I mentioned the double wall option as being better...he said, "Why aren't we doing that?"

I never discussed the double wall approach before with him, because I figured it would be too much for him to get into, especially with the cathedral ceiling, and then also any code requirements..etc...so I told him I was hesitant to bring it up, because it might be a more complicated thing for the build..and he smiled, and said that for him, all the stuff with the clips/hat channel, gaps in the drywall, etc....was the more complicated nonsense! :D
He said building a second wall (room within room) was much easier and less complicated, and the being a carpenter, he preferred that.

So....we have changed the plans now, and I will have a formal double wall, room within room studio, which will be even better AFA decoupling and soundproofing...and he did some math and said in reality, I would only be losing a small amount of additional space compared to the clips and hat channel approach...and that only my inside ceiling/roof would be a bit lower since he would need to do 2x8" or 2x10" rafters, but since it would only be supporting the inside ceiling drywall...maybe only 2x8"...but he would work it out.

We ended our meeting both with smiles...he was happy not to have to mess with all the clip/channel/drywall stuff...and I was happy because it would now give me even better decoupling and soundproofing going with the room within room construction. The money I'm saving on the clips/hat channel is enough to cover the building of the second wall/ceiling.

I actually had some concerns about the clips/hat channel approach...as it had weight bearing capacity issues, plus, a decoupled wall of that nature has some issues with LF due to a resonant frequency being affected/created by that decoupled drywall.
Now, with the double wall...that second wall can be 100% airtight and solid, so the mass can be greater, and I can certainly add more mass internally without any concern for weight capacity of clips and hat channel, and now I am most likely going to be able to add a wood treatment layer to the drywall for most, if not all of the room...which will provide both more mass and also improve the acoustics, compared to bare drywall...and it will look nicer too.

He expects that the outside wall/roof will be framed and sealed by Thanksgiving...and then the work will continue inside...so potentially by XMas I should have it finished pretty much. Then comes the "fun" phase of doing my own final treatments and the equipment installation, which will keep me busy during the winter months.
I see a fully completed studio by early spring...April if it all goes smoothly.
 
I've been following this thread for about 6 or 7 months and the to~ing and fro~ing and progress and thoughts have been fascinating.
 


Why?

The room-within-room walls will not be swaying or buckling...???
The second walls will be anchored to the slab, with decoupling between the bottom of the wall sills and the slab.
Theoretically you could remove the outer walls/roof...and the inside room would be completely free-standing, just like the outer walls.
Yes, both inner and outer walls are anchored to the same slab...but decoupling the inner wall sills will help with that, and TBH, the amount of sound transmission through the slab will be insignificant.
I'm not in a city, multi-floor building or with neighbors on the adjacent walls and using the same slab/foundation.


That's the first time I've seen "sway bracing" mentioned by anyone. There is no mention of it in the Rod Gervais studio building book that I can recall, or buy anyone who I've talked with in the soundproofing industry.

I think maybe it applies to "partitions" which is what they talk about...like if you're just putting up walls without anchoring them to the slab/floor and no support.
I don't see anything swaying or buckling with this build approach.
 
Funny, I'm not aware of any not doing it in regards to room within a room construction.
Maybe something to look into.Ceiling as well.
How are the inner wall top plates being anchored?
Possibly not a true room within a room construction?

G
 
Funny, I'm not aware of any not doing it in regards to room within a room construction.
Maybe something to look into.Ceiling as well.
How are the inner wall top plates being anchored?
Possibly not a true room within a room construction?

G

The inner wall top plates are being anchored the same as the outer wall...to the studs and to the sills.
It's like building a one room house...and then you build another house inside of it...and the two don't touch.

I'm not saying the anti-sway stuff is not something to be considered...but I'm not understanding why the inner room would be swaying/buckling...?
IOW...why doesn't the other wall sway or buckle...it's basically the same construction technique, the only difference really is that the outer wall will sit right on the footings, which it needs to for max weight bearing, as it will also have a shingled roof, not to mention snow loads...etc...but the inner walls will be right next to it.

There's only going to be a 1/2" air space between the outer/inner walls...so not much room for any kind of anti-sway bracing to be installed even if I wanted to.

In addition to all that...the room is going to have 4 "beams" that run across and connect the two load-bearing outer walls. I think I will have him connect my inner walls to the same beams, but with a layer of some type of decoupling around the beams where they lay on top of the inner walls.
That will most certainly provide substantial anti-sway...but even without that...not understanding why the inner room would sway/buckle?
 
This book miroslav...

G
View attachment 105107

OK...I have that book...that's on page 87...and it's a specialized isolation product for use on extremely long or tall walls.
In the previous sections of the book where wall assemblies are covered, to include double walls...there is no mention of the need for anti-sway bracing of that type.
It's only in unique cases where it can be added if needed, but not as a default requirement of all double wall assemblies.

I think it also applies more to complete "floating" wall systems that don't have anchor points...in which case the anti-sway would be necessary.

The other thing about much of what is outlined in the book, is that it applies very often to studios where you have other, non-studio rooms next to your studio or above or below it. So in those cases, the isolation and double walls and decoupling...all becomes much more complex, especially when building the studio inside an existing structure, like your house or some condo/apartment scenario...or in a commercial building complex.

My studio is, for all intents and purposes...a standalone structure, on it's own slab. Yes, There is a connecting foyer to the rest of the house...but there is minimal direct transmission, and I'm not really concerned about any transmission of sound into the rest of the house. Yeah, minimize it for sure, but my main/only concern is the transmission of sound out to the neighboring houses...which are not really even right next to my studio space.

I've gone all these years in my current studio, which is really just a spare bedroom type space, with 3 huge 6' wide windows...and while I do have some acoustic treatment, I have never bothered with any soundproofing treatment...and I've played my guitars cranked at 3AM..and had drummers banging away up until midnight a few times.
No one ever complained. My house is kinda set back, and I've got quite a lot of trees in back on to my sides...so all this shit I'm doing with the new studio is probably overkill...but since the new studio will be on the opposite side of the house...it's a little bit closer to one of my neighbors than my current studio...and I just want to be sure that I can still crank that guitar amp at 3AM and not piss anyone off. :eek: :D
Not to mention...when the studio build is done...I will most likely add another layer onto the inner drywall...probably some kind of 3/4" wood treatment.
So it will be pretty damn isolated inside. :)

Yes...there will be a few minor challenges/considerations when we get to the inner walls...plus the plumbing for the baseboard heat, and the ducts for the AC...etc...but it can all be dealt with and treated to a good degree with one type of another of insulating products.
So it's that 5% here and 10% there of soundproofing improvement...but I'm pretty confident that when done, it will be a very quiet room (to the outside word, and vice-versa).

Biggest thing for me was that the contractor and I suddenly ended up at what is the better solution, and it all happened in like 5-10 minutes of discussion...whereas I've been mentally struggling a bit with the clips/hat channels technique, since it had both good and bad qualities to it.
Now, the build became much more straightforward for the contractor, and it will have better results for me.
 
Actually, it IS a true room within a room... :) ...which is normally defined as a room that has independent wall studs and ceiling joists from the outer structure.

I'm not getting the "Camden" stuff...it's probably just different terminology and style of building design than what is here in the USA...but here is a general idea of what I'm doing...look at the first image one the left...the "Level 3" image.
I'm not doing double drywall on the outside wall, since it is an exterior wall...so that will plywood...and then inside, instead of double drywall, I will do one layer of drywall and then over that will be some type of wood layer...probably 5/8" to 3/4", and with the wood layer, I may forgo the Green Glue, as I have other ideas that are not as crazy expensive as the Green Glue, which TBH, is mostly recommended between drywall layers, not drywall and wood layers.

Soundproofing Walls | Soundproofing Co.

That's pretty much what I'm doing...a double stud wall system, and also the double joist ceiling system, to create a true room within a room.
The slab is the only common element...and for that, the inner room will be decoupled to a good degree.
Once the inner room is done...I plan to then install the sub-floor and final hardwood flooring, and that will be decoupled from the inner walls, but again, the common element will be the slab...though I will again, decouple the sub-floor framing from the slab.

That's about as best and as deep as I want to go with the soundproofing, since my needs for it are not super-critical, and I will need to put some money into the final acoustic treatments, which will have more overall importance to me, but of course, if you start with the room/room design, do some decoupling where it's most need, and put enough mass on the two sets of walls...all of that will be a positive thing for the final acoustic treatments.
 
*sigh* gazes dreamily into the distance "If only ..."

You're living the dream, sir. I hear birds chirping outside of my music room. That's probably the window's fault but I wouldn't put it past the walls and grossly inadequate insulation of my house's 1962 construction. Ah, well, I won't be in this place much longer and hopefully the next place won't be a shoebox of an apartment.
 
*sigh* gazes dreamily into the distance "If only ..."

You're living the dream, sir. I hear birds chirping outside of my music room. That's probably the window's fault but I wouldn't put it past the walls and grossly inadequate insulation of my house's 1962 construction. Ah, well, I won't be in this place much longer and hopefully the next place won't be a shoebox of an apartment.

Well...I've gone through several iterations of my home studio over the years...so I said "If only..." many times over the years. :)
I can hear birds chirping from my current space with the large 3 windows it has. TBH, that's never been the problem...or like I said earlier, that I was ever disturbing any of my neighbors...but I still dreamed of taking it to another level at some point.
Right now I have this opportunity after many years of saying "If only..." ...and I figure I might as well do it as "right" as I can.
I would have loved this opportunity back in my earlier days...but sometimes you just have to wait for it, and then either go for it or let it pass.

I dream about its completion every night... :D
 
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