My third music/studio room option

bluesfordan

Member
still mulling my music room options. There's a master bedroom on the first floor, it is rectangular but also bigger in all dimensions.

current room is 109" (2.77 m) wide by 133" (3.37 m) long by 88" (2.23 m) high = 738 ft[SUP]3[/SUP] (20.9 m[SUP]3[/SUP])

master bedroom is 137" (3.48 m) wide by 158" (4.01 m) long by 91" (2.31 m) high = 1140 ft[SUP]3[/SUP] (32.3 m[SUP]3[/SUP])

There are three windows, one centered on the north (end) and two side by side centered on the east (side). There are already heavy drapes in place. There is a long closet offset on the south (end) wall and the room entry door is on the west (side) at the corner. There's a ceiling fan roughly dead center of the room. I can actually use that in another room so removing it is no problem. The wall to wall carpet is heavily soiled and everybody agrees it needs to go. The closet doors are poorly hung mirrored bi-folds that never worked right from day one probably due to weight and they'll probably be removed as well no matter what the room is used for.

i could construct bass traps for 3 of the corners, don't know about the corner where the door is.

Would I want the desk at the north end or the south end of the room? My thought is at the south end in front of the closet, with large gobos acting as reflection absorbers behind the monitors. Same for the side reflection. The higher ceiling would make hanging a cloud easier. The drapes would help as diffusers.
 
the north end would probably be best for that, then. the wall behind and adjacent to the desk would be more uniform than the offset closet opening and the room door in the south west corner.
 
When choosing rooms, I find this to be helpful

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

It will tell you how close to ideal your room is. Plug in the numbers and see where it lies on the Bolt area graphic. Then look at the Bonello bar graph to see how the modes are distributed. And the first graph will show room modes by frequency and strength. The page also provides a list of the actual modes. Pay particular attention to the axial modes. They tend to be the worst.

All this taken together will give you a quick idea of how the rooms compare in theory. Big is usually better but it can also depend on the shape.
 
Desk placement can depend on ergonomics, light, electrical access, and what's located at you first reflection points. Usually, it goes about 1/3 back from the short wall and is centered in the room. From there, it's a matter of moving the desk and speakers (forward usually) until you find the least troublesome spot for hearing low end frequencies. If you have really good ears, you will be able to tell using your own judgement. If not, it's a matter of testing with test tones or using a measurement mic and software.
 
Do you really have the choice of the master bedroom? :confused: Where will you sleep?

LOL. My bedroom is on the second floor. The former master bedroom, now split into two small bedrooms and a walk-in closet is on the other side of the second floor. The 9x11 music room is one of those bedrooms. The room downstairs became the master bedroom by virtue of being my parents' room.
 
When choosing rooms, I find this to be helpful

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

It will tell you how close to ideal your room is. Plug in the numbers and see where it lies on the Bolt area graphic. Then look at the Bonello bar graph to see how the modes are distributed. And the first graph will show room modes by frequency and strength. The page also provides a list of the actual modes. Pay particular attention to the axial modes. They tend to be the worst.

All this taken together will give you a quick idea of how the rooms compare in theory. Big is usually better but it can also depend on the shape.

weird, I clicked on the link and nothing but greek, sumerian, nordic runes and hieroglyphics showed up. You would have thought they'd at least use English words :confused::eek:
 
weird, I clicked on the link and nothing but greek, sumerian, nordic runes and hieroglyphics showed up. You would have thought they'd at least use English words :confused::eek:

It seems complicated at first but you have to dig in a little. Although both the Bonello and Bolt area graphics come with a little explanation. I'd use those to get a quick idea of what you are facing. You don't have to know what they mean, just whether your room makes them look pretty. :D

The room modes are relative. All rooms have sound and modes. It's really a question of how many you are likely to face and whether they are stacked on top of one another.
 
Neither room is horrible (using the calculator) but the bigger room is going to be better for mixing IMO. For recording, it depends on how you'll use it. All those modes and stuff really matter when you're trying to use your ears, and in most rooms we HRs have to use, close micing removes a lot of the room influence, though it can confuse things if you're trying to decide if the mic placement is working, i.e., when you listen to the track.

If you can set the desk so your monitors and treatment of early reflections give you a good listening point, that would be my main criteria.

Unless there's a ton of noise entering the room from the rest of the house, you can probably leave that corner door open (experiment with how much) for mixing - it's kind of an infinite bass trap at that point. It's what I do, anyway.

I wouldn't remove the fan unless it's really in the way of installing some cloud treatment, and those don't have to be super thick (IMO). I left the fan in my little room just so I can clear out the stuffiness if I have to keep it closed up in the summer for any length of time - it's never on when recording or mixing, of course.
 
oh man, fans can do funky things with sound. I was house sitting for a friend's dog while they were away. I set up my guitar gear in their cathedral ceiling room. I thought something was wrong with my amp, i kept hearing this weird fluttering sound. So I tried another amp. Same fluttering sound. WTF??? By this point I was getting exasperated and a little heated up, which made me perspire since they didn't have A/C ... but they did have a ceiling fan that basically ran continuously during the warm weather. Nah, it couldn't be, could it? I shut the fan off and the fluttering sound went away.
 
I'm torn between using the closet as a bass trap or putting the guitar amps in there (not as an iso booth but to help keep the room clear)
 
I'm torn between using the closet as a bass trap or putting the guitar amps in there (not as an iso booth but to help keep the room clear)
I find storage is more important, and if you have shelves with mics and odds and ends, it will be a diffusor and trap - put a heavy drape or moving pad across the opening for absorption and looks if it matters. It won't be as effective as a *bass* trap (because of its location) as putting real ones in the corners, anyway.
 
Two types of bass traps.Either work on particle velocity or pressure.
Corners are high pressure/minimum particle velocity.

G

from Toole
Screenshot_2019-04-15 Sound Reproduction(1).png
Screenshot_2019-04-15 Sound Reproduction.png
 
I find storage is more important...

Yeah...it's not something we like giving up valuable studio space for...but it's always needed.
If/when I ever get my new studio build going (still jerking around trying to find a local contractor that wants to do it)...no matter what layout I end up with or final studio size...I'm going with a fairly decent storage space, that will be in-line and next to a decent size iso-booth, plus an "attic" space above them...like 5' x 10' each (storage & iso-booth)...and then above them the 5' "attic" space running the combined 20' length, up to the roof.

I've actually been thinking if I want to seal that "attic" portion solid with the drywalls and final layers...or create some kind of "framed wall" but, inside the space set it up as huge absorbing trap. I mean...5' x 25' across. I would just drop some felt cloth over the "framed wall", but inside have it stuffed with 703 or similar.
That said...that "attic" space would be 8' up, over the storage and iso-booth...so not sure if having it act as a huge trap is effective up there...but I can't see why it wouldn't be, if my monitors are firing toward that end of the room.

But the real point was...you definitely need studio storage space. I've got a ton of studio shit that needs to be in storage, and not cluttering up the usable space all the time.
 
storage is one thing I do not have in my current room. The room next to it was my storage area. That closet is looking better all the time
 
Unless there's a ton of noise entering the room from the rest of the house, you can probably leave that corner door open (experiment with how much) for mixing - it's kind of an infinite bass trap at that point. It's what I do, anyway.

I wouldn't remove the fan unless it's really in the way of installing some cloud treatment, and those don't have to be super thick (IMO).

In my room, leaving the door open or shut made no difference as measured with a measurement mic at the mix position. The door isn't exactly in the corner, but it's close (24"). Every room is different, and every room will probably yield different results. If it were me, though, I would be happier with a traditional bass trap that was movable and could be placed for mixing and removed for access. I guess I'm just a symmetry freak, though. :D

Same on the cloud thickness. My room required 4" cloud panels to knock down a peak at 150hz. The existing 2" panels just didn't work. This is also the advice that the consultant at GIK gave me.
 
I think the closet depends on it's location. Storage is great but not if the closet can be used as a trap or is positioned where you would normally put bass traps. My first goal would be to get the room sounding as best as possible. Then worry about storage.
 
I think the closet depends on it's location. Storage is great but not if the closet can be used as a trap or is positioned where you would normally put bass traps. My first goal would be to get the room sounding as best as possible. Then worry about storage.
[MENTION=193247]bluesfordan[/MENTION] didn't give us a blueprint, but it sounded like he had regular corners for 3 bass traps and a door in the 4th. The corners are where the bass accumulates, or whatever it does, so that would be the most effective place for those traps. Sure, moveable if that makes sense, but if you eliminate the corner, nothing is going to build up there.

I was just talking about the overhead clouds that are for those early reflections during mixing. IMO, those don't have to be too concerned about LF content, but you can put whatever fits. I have a couple of 4" panels hung a few inches away from the (8') ceiling and close to the fan, but I don't mix bass heavy content ever, so my room is Ok for what I do (and I'm not a measurer :)).
 
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