Monitor height to head and ears

bluesfordan

Member
I have two options at the moment for placing my new monitors. I already know about the equilateral triangle arrangement i.e. speakers as far apart as your position from the speakers but what about what vertical plane should they be at.

my desk hutch is the most likely place I'd be putting the monitors, they would be 54" (137cm) from the floor and about 12" (30cm) above my seating position. Should they be on the same plane as my head/ears ~ 46" (117 cm) from the floor?

The other option is far less tenable due to the length of cabling I would need to put the monitors behind me, and at a greater height off the floor 57" (144 cm)

If the speakers should be on the same plane as my head, should my ears be in line with the high frequency tweeter, the woofer, or a spot in between them?

Sorry about the noobish sounding question, google kept directing me to in-ear monitors
 
If they are 2-way speakers with a HF driver and a speaker below....you want the center point between them to be at your seated ear height.
That is the best option. If they are 3-way...between the HF and MID drivers.
Some people have them up higher, and then angled down, but I don't care for that approach.
 
It's funny because this can make an important difference in what you actually hear. I started playing around with the height of my monitors by raising them in two inch increments from 42" to 54." I then measured the frequency response after each change (see attached REW plots).

After that I measured myself (6'4") and my chair height (18"). Then I went shopping for an adjustable seat and something to stunt my growth.
 

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I increased the size of my computer monitors, and the quantity - and they had to go up and they now have a downwards tilt of around 20 degrees, and the sound did change. The HF end, probably, like in those diagrams, sounded slightly different, and I think the position my head had to be in to get the 'normal' sound was slightly smaller - but I solved it quite simply. I turned the cabinets upside down, so the HF drivers are the lowest, and as far as I can tell, they lowe sound so close to how they sounded before, it's forgotten about. I've now got space for 3 computer monitors side by side and everything works as it should.
 
What does each of the graphs represent?

The graphs represent frequency response with FR on the horizontal axis and level on the vertical. The first, shows the FR from 40 to 10k (full spectrum more or less). The second, a detailed look at the low frequencies (40-400hz). The colors represent the various measurements. In this case, speaker height changes (42" to 54").

They show quite a bit of variation depending on how high the speakers are raised. This is particularly true above 200hz.
 
The graphs represent frequency response with FR on the horizontal axis and level on the vertical. The first, shows the FR from 40 to 10k (full spectrum more or less). The second, a detailed look at the low frequencies (40-400hz). The colors represent the various measurements. In this case, speaker height changes (42" to 54").

They show quite a bit of variation depending on how high the speakers are raised. This is particularly true above 200hz.

This is because you're changing their distance to the floor and ceiling...and their interaction with the room.

Generally, you want to get the midpoint between tweeter and speaker at your seated ear height. Some people like them up an inch or down an inch...some up but tilted down an inch...etc.

I wouldn't get to hung up on your graphs...because those were done with a stationary mic. When you mix/listen, your head is always moving, so the 2" increments are going to be happening constantly when your move you head around.

If you have a low ceiling...like a typical home room with 8' ceilings...you kinda want the speakers to end up generally in the 2/3 height from floor.
You don't want them up much closer than that to the ceiling.
 
The graphs represent frequency response with FR on the horizontal axis and level on the vertical. The first, shows the FR from 40 to 10k (full spectrum more or less). The second, a detailed look at the low frequencies (40-400hz). The colors represent the various measurements. In this case, speaker height changes (42" to 54").

They show quite a bit of variation depending on how high the speakers are raised. This is particularly true above 200hz.

Sure, but I was wondering what height each of the colour represents.
 
Sure, but I was wondering what height each of the colour represents.

I can sort that out, but it's pretty irrelevant. None of the heights would be useful to anyone because the FR for each height is a function of my room and it's particular treatment. My point was simply that this gets overlooked as a variable in setting up a room. It has an effect, although your options are limited by other factors including ceiling height. As Miroslav noted above, many people have eight foot ceilings and most simply avoid placing the monitor exactly half way. Your height is not variable unless you are under 16 or over 80, and the standard chair has a limited range. So there is a small incremental range you can work with. In my case, this range made a difference and I was able to "treat" a fairly deep null around 240hz. I didn't have to spend money on additional absorption, and I didn't have to move my speakers and mix position. I simply adjusted the height of my monitors to their current height (44").
 
more questions and not sure if I should start new thread. I've made changes that will allow me to put my monitors on the sides of my desk hutch. I've seen many pictures of people angling the face of their monitors towards the apex of the sweet position triangle. Usually they're sitting on a shelf with no vertical surface beside the monitor. I don't have the exact measurements yet but there will be about a foot of the side of the hutch beside each monitor.

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that powerbar on the side of the hutch was just for accessories and will be moved.
should the monitors be flush with the edge of the hutch and squared, or do I want the face of the monitors angled towards my seating position? I'll worry about sound treatment after I figure this out. FYI the distance to the walls L and R respectively of the hutch are 49 and 17 inches. There's really no option for centering the desk due to a closet door on the wall behind the desk.
 
...should the monitors be flush with the edge of the hutch and squared, or do I want the face of the monitors angled towards my seating position?

Angled in toward your mix position, but make the inside edge of the monitors flush with the hutch...so basically, the outside corners of the monitors will be hanging over the edge a bit, unless you also angle the shelves you are adding.

AFA centering the whole thing...looks to me like you have some kind of shelf/audio gear (the stuff with the tape measure on it) to the left of the hutch. Why can't you move that and then center the hutch...which would be much better than pushed to one side like that...?
 
I'm with everybody else on this one. Centered in the room roughly 1/3 back from the short wall (assuming the room is rectangular) with the monitors angled in about 30 degrees. Ear height is also a good place to start with the mix position just slightly inside the equilateral triangle formed by the speakers and the mixing position.

After you assume this basic theoretically optimal position, add your room treatments following the standard theoretical setup. This includes a cloud, corner bass traps, and panels at the first reflection points. After that, I would look into the idea of measuring your room. Because everything you've done thus far is just a theoretical setup based on the average hypothetical space--not your room. Unless you measure, I'm afraid you will never know.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't have fun or even mix decent songs. You might be able to figure out, though trial and error, a way to get mixes that translate well. But I would argue that it's better to get things right before engaging in the trial and error process. Unless, of course, you want to spend the rest of your natural life riding around in cars.
 
the room is almost perfectly square 10x10. I concede the centering of the desk along the wall is optimal although I'm not so sure I'll be able to come 1/3 out from the wall, might be closer to 1/4 or 1/5 but once the desk has no side units I'll see how the room feels if I pull it out further from the wall.

you're right about the stuff on the left of the hutch, it is really preventing centering of the desk. However I just thought of something. IF there is only the desk along that wall, it frees up the possibility of free-standing speaker pedestals instead of shelves on the side of the hutch for the monitors. Is this a viable idea?
 
Those monitors look very small in the pic. Do you have a sub? Not sure what they are but since you're re-setting your listening situation you may want to at least plan spacing for bigger / better monitors somewhere down the line. Your idea about monitor stands seems like the way to go.
 
LOL, oops. Those aren't the monitors, they're just some old radio shack minimus 7s that are hooked up to the old kenwood receiver in the hutch. I sort of use them for monitoring. My monitors will be JBL 308P MKII.
 
the room is almost perfectly square 10x10. I concede the centering of the desk along the wall is optimal although I'm not so sure I'll be able to come 1/3 out from the wall, might be closer to 1/4 or 1/5 but once the desk has no side units I'll see how the room feels if I pull it out further from the wall.

A 10x10 room is a rough one. I also assume you have an 8ft. ceiling. This makes the room both small and square. And that's a tough combination, even with the right treatment and the right placement. Most folks would tell you to find another room. If that's not possible, I'd do some research on placement and treatment strategies for square rooms. Given the depth of the room, you're right: you may not have too many choices but up against the wall.

I'd still suggest looking at room measurement. The software (REW) is free and workable measurement microphones are typically less than $100. You can measure a variety of placements and see which one works best. Or, more likely, is the least worst setup.

If you just want a simple approach, I would download some test tones just focusing on the low frequency range (say 50hz, 75hz, 125hz, 150hz, and 200hz. Play the tone through your monitors, and walk around the room listening for changes. You will probably run into a lot a variance and even spots where there is almost no sound. This will give you a sense of the problems you will face when mixing at a given location and help you decide where to set up. At minimum, it will tell you where your mixes are likely to be problematic.
 
to paraphrase Yoda and Kenobi's cryptic "No, there is another" exchange from TESB, the room next to my current music room is another possibility of a music room. It is ~99" x 162", with a dormer ceiling along the long axis. It shares a 'vestibule' with the current room. There is a closet on the entryway's left wall and a crawl space attic access door in the dormer wall. It has base board heat along the exterior wall that is 3" in depth so there is really 159 inches of floor space along the long axis. I included a picture and no, I didn't chose the color my youngest brother did.

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I was going to make this a combination workshop/storage area. However it is for now available IF it seems that it would be a better room for treating than a near perfect cube that the current room is.
 
Well.......both of them are pretty small rooms and both of them will present issues for monitor playback and for recording. To add to that.......the 308's are excellent monitors but might produce a little TOO much bass for either room. I suppose you could EQ to address that. Bass trapping will need to be extensive......taking up more space. Sometimes less is better in small spaces when it comes to a monitors bass performance. Before going too much further........let's see what the guys here say about which room to choose and then you can go from there. Even though the other room is 10x10 and square........the higher ceiling might be a benefit as opposed to a dormer / slanted ceiling. I think the dormer room might be too small width wise..........but hey.........that's just a guess on my part.
 
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