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Thread: Monitor height to head and ears

  1. #21
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    Like Mickster said, the differences between those rooms are pretty slim. Logic would tell you to go with anything but the square room. Although the non-square room has roughly the same square feet. And if you plug those values into a room mode calculator, neither falls within the so-called "Bolt" area which describes good room dimensions

    amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

    Both appear to have a bunch of low end room modes which will cause issues. And the angled ceiling in the second room is a real wildcard. Some might argue that the angled wall will have some beneficial results in terms of low frequency build up. I have no idea.

    I hate to sound like a broken record, but the only real way of telling is to measure. Again using REW and an inexpensive measurement mic. Ideally, you would empty both rooms except for the bare essentials (computer, interface, monitors), measure away and then compare data. There is a bit of a learning curve on the software but I think it's worth the trouble--especially since it's free. REW even has it's own support forum on AV Nirvana. So there is plenty of help out there. And if you run the tests, you can send the resulting files to an acoustic treatment company for analysis and free advice on which products to use for treatment. I did this with GIK and got some good tips.

    Ultimately no matter what you do, small rooms are tough to treat. You can definitely improve the room, but it's hard to believe you could achieve pro results without a significant expenditure or remodeling. That shouldn't discourage you. You can still record and mix with some knowledge of your room's deficits. And you can always resort to mixing with the aide of headphones. It's not ideal. But they do eliminate the problem of room acoustics as a variable in mixing decisions.

    As you go forward with treating your room, you should also keep in mind several issues. To overcome the low end problems that plague small rooms, you will need A LOT of bass trapping. This means you will loose a lot of floor space and gain a good bit of Claustrophobia Lots of bass traps also means a bigger budget, although you can cut corners here if you are DIY savvy. And perhaps most important, lots of traps will mean that your room will be relatively dead. Some people don't care for mixing in dead rooms, especially if they are mixing music that has a large soundstage. Think symphony music, EDM, stadium rock etc. If you are mixing more intimate stuff, it's less of an issue. Also keep in mind that the deadness issue will likely impart some effects on your sound if you will be using the room to record.

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    thanks everybody for the replies. I'm kind of stuck in a conundrum as what to do. The length of residency I have left here is fairly uncertain that I hesitate to make a huge endeavor only to have to break it all down and pack to move. Long story short, family home of 50 plus years could be sold in not too distant future and split with siblings (i'm the only one living here). I may just end up settling to mix and master with headphones after all is said and done. Your insights into the feasibility of either of these rooms has been very helpful.

    we live in an interesting time and not so far from the chinese curse either. We have reasonably affordable access to equipment that can rival that of the major big studios and mastering houses of yore. Yet when I read things like "24 by 24 rooms that still aren't all THAT big" and the complexity and difficulty of treating the acoustics of small rooms, which by definition means any residential dwelling rooms (aside from McMansions and cribs of the rich and famous), it seems like it boils down to size and volume i.e. the bigger the better. At least that's what she said.

    If I were 10 or 20 years younger, I probably would have already tried moving out of my current bedroom and converting it to my music room as discussed in this Room shape importance thread. At my current energy levels and strength it would take me weeks if not months.

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    Well...if I was in an uncertain situation about the building or rooms I had to work with...I too wouldn't get very involved in creating any type of (small or large) formal studio space.
    You should first work out your house situation...and then go from there.

    AFA the best case scenarios...yeah, it really is about volume, as in room space. To avoid a lot of acoustics issues, the bigger the better. You still have to employ treatment, but with big spaces it's more about tuning the room. With smaller spaces, it's about trying hard to fix a lot of acoustics problems.

    I'm on my final studio project right now (I don't see myself doing another studio build/move down the road without a major lottery win, and medication)...and this time I'm going for the big space with the big volume. It's not an easy decision, because it's going to be a huge project, and yeah, I too wish I had this much opportunity 20 years ago, but then I also feel that not doing this even now at this stage of my life...I will have regrets one day.

    Hope there is a good solution to your house situation, and you find something that works for you as a studio space.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesfordan View Post

    If I were 10 or 20 years younger, I probably would have already tried moving out of my current bedroom and converting it to my music room. At my current energy levels and strength it would take me weeks if not months.
    I completely understand. When I stared revamping my current space, somebody suggested that I measure my room after removing all it's contents. I told him that I would need a note from my cardiologist.

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    Don’t get down about the space for now. When you get to where you’re going to stay for a while.........try this again. Don’t worry about your space when you get there. Homes are not always conducive to becoming recording studios......just ask most of us here. We’ll help you when the time comes. Mix and master as best you can and have fun. You can still mix and master and use multiple references like your car and other systems to get to the final product. You sure wouldn’t be the only one doing that.
    Just A Song Writer..........

  6. #26
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    my monitors are still new in box, I wonder if I should even bother to set them up. maybe sell them?

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    Why sell them??? Unless you've completely changed your mind about mixing and mastering someday........there's no reason to get rid of them. No one here will ever say you'll never need monitors. Set them up anyway. Enjoy them. Play lots of commercial music you're familiar with through them to see how they sound.....and you'll at least BEGIN to get a feel for how your music should sound coming out of them. Down the road.......you'll be glad yo kept them.
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickster View Post
    Why sell them??? Unless you've completely changed your mind about mixing and mastering someday........there's no reason to get rid of them. No one here will ever say you'll never need monitors. Set them up anyway. Enjoy them. Play lots of commercial music you're familiar with through them to see how they sound.....and you'll at least BEGIN to get a feel for how your music should sound coming out of them. Down the road.......you'll be glad yo kept them.
    thanks, that's a very good point.

  10. #29
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    @bluesfordan - there's a lot of stuff going on in this thread!

    I'd agree that the 8" monitors would probably be considered large for a room that size, but, hey, you've got them so use them!

    You will want some substantial stands to support them and not absorb sound energy - no specific recommendations, but if you can build something temporary that allows adjustable height, or use some good measuring with the advice here, it should be close enough. Hollow boxes or large-ish PVC filled with sand (liberal caulk advised) or Quikrete if you want, are nice but you'll need a substantial base (whether filled or not) to keep those 8" monitors from accidents.

    The wall centering thing is a problem. While you are at the vertex of a triangle and they are near-field, the size of the room means you will be getting some reflections. I don't know how many doors and windows there are, but if there are 4 10' walls, isn't there any possibility to use a different one than where you've currently got the desk located? The very un-centered location means one side of your setup will be contributing more to what you hear than is really in the mix.

    The possibility of moving at some indeterminate time in the future says even semi-permanent treatment might be unrealistic, but if the room allows, any good bass trapping you can stick in the corners is going to improve things significantly. I built stackable ~4' tall (i.e., "almost" 8' when stacked) frames to hold double thickness rockwool panels in my 8' tall, square room.

    P.S. Just got around to seeing this video from therecordingrevolution.com - it's actually by a different guy, and I think it's pretty comprehensive and clear. (It's about room treatment, but briefly covers topics in this thread, too.)
    Last edited by keith.rogers; 03-29-2019 at 05:58. Reason: add room treatment video link
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

  11. #30
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    thanks, I'm going to watch that a couple more times.

    The one thing I'm trying to visualize is the 'firing down the long wall' when talking about monitors and how it would apply to an irregularly shaped room like my bedroom. Mo' Research is my new innerwebs handle, yo.

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