Improving small venue sound

T

The Lotus Kid

New member
So, i work at a small venue.

I understand that's not a studio, but the whole place is probably only 20 x 50, maybe a 15 foot ceiling.
So i assume getting good sound there will be a lot like getting good sound in a studio, small size is no reason to have bad sound. We'd like to put enough work into the sound in the room that it beats the other small venues and competes with some of the larger ones.


Right now, everything is muddy and hard to make out, especially vocals, so we're trying to reduce the echo.
I've got so many questions about sound i can't even remember them all, but a few:

-The treble echo is awful. Will carpeting/foam paneling on the walls help? What about the ceiling?

-If i put bass traps in the corners, can i cover them with egg carton foam to absorb treble/mids too? Will the foam stop the bass traps from working?

-Will hanging acoustic panels from the ceiling help? Will hanging bass traps do anything at all?

-There's a big glass window wall at the front of the venue, directly opposite of the stage. Should we cover that? With what?


I've got an amatuer's knowledge of acoustics, so any input is appreciated.


Thanks,
Matt
 
Small size does present special problems. There's less distance from the source to a boundary and back, so you're working against inverse square law more than with a big room.

The shape does matter. Acoustic treatments are designed to absorb/diffuse specific frequency ranges. Except egg crate which is designed to carry eggs, not be an effective acoustic treatment.

Putting a heavy theatrical curtain across the front window would likely be a good start. I would have to actually hear the room to make more specific suggestions. If you're really serious about this you could put together a measurement rig and spend the time figuring out how to use it effectively, or you could hire a professional acoustician.
 
yeah ..... forget the egg crates altogether and start by covering that window. That will make some difference all by itself.
 
The Lotus Kid said:
The treble echo is awful. Will carpeting/foam paneling on the walls help? What about the ceiling?
Click to expand...

Forget carpeting. For a venue sized space you want proper absorbing material that's four inches thick, even if it's a smaller venue. Thin materials will help the high end, but the bass will still be hollow and boomy and poorly defined.

Will hanging acoustic panels from the ceiling help? Will hanging bass traps do anything at all?

-There's a big glass window wall at the front
Click to expand...

I think you should consider the window the last place to treat just because it will hide the window. If you put thick absorbers on the walls and ceilings, and that's sufficient, you'll have solved the problem and also preserved the window.

The general goal for large spaces is to spread the absorption around more or less evenly. Versus all on one wall or all on the ceiling only.

--Ethan
 
+1 to Ethan's comments.

Matt,

Can you post some photos or drawings?
We'll give you some better pointers with more information. ;)

Cheers,
John
 
jhbrandt said:
+1 to Ethan's comments.

Matt,

Can you post some photos or drawings?
We'll give you some better pointers with more information. ;)

Cheers,
John
Click to expand...

Thanks! I can get those by friday/saturday.

Now the window wall, we painted that black some time ago, so loosing the window is no big deal. I'm thinking of treating that first, because it's behind the counter, and therefore one of the only places the crowd won't be.

That takes me to another major problem: the crowd. Anything less than 9 feet off the ground is going to get demolished. It's just a fact of life, especially on metal/hardcore/punk nights.

That was what drew me to the carpet idea originally, it's durable. Wasn't thinking about fire code though, so i guess that idea is right out. :P


As for the foam, we got pretty lucky. We're about 12 miles from thefoamfactory.com

They claim "All acoustical products meet ASTM E84 Class A and California 117 flame retardancy specifications. Generally, this means if you were to briefly expose our foam to a flame, it would self-extinguish.
We do not encourage or endorse anyone attempting fire retardancy tests. Also, please check building codes to meet your area's regulations before installing our acoustic foam."

I've never had misinformation or a bad experience from them in the past, so i trust it's the case.
 
Properly configured hard materials can do a lot to diffuse reflections. What you need is walls that aren't big and flat. Look into skyline diffusers.
 
jhbrandt said:
Lotus,

This is what I would use, but I still want to see photos or drawings. ;)
AMF Baffles Acoustic Ceiling Systems at AMF

Cheers,
John
Click to expand...

Here they are:

-looking at the couch from the stage
View attachment 81162

-looking at the stage from the couch
View attachment 81163

-the stage. Plywood (not particle board or osb), no idea how thick. Hollow.
View attachment 81164

-the speakers
View attachment 81165
View attachment 81166

-Foam tiles on the ceiling at the back of the stage. The only acoustic treatment in the room right now. Supposedly they help with cymbals.
View attachment 81167


The ceiling seems lower than it is, but there's another few feet of black wall above the moulding
View attachment 81168
 
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