If I moved to the countryside...

spitzer

New member
In another thread, it was suggested that perhaps I should move to the countryside, referring to possibly disturbing close neighbours by playing drums (drum set, aka... LOUD. Peaks over 120 dB.) in an urban or suburban area. Now I'll try to skip everything irrelevant and get to the technical part.

In my mind, the countryside is WORSE, because NOTHING in the environment helps. The closest neighbour is perhaps 10 times farther away than in the city, across a river even .. but theres nothing but wide open air in between.

An option would be to place the drum set in a log cabin. Picture something like this: http://cowboyloghomes.com/wp-conten...-home-bath-house-stained-cowboy-log-homes.jpg , except NOT with a full concrete base. But with a floating, and relatively thin wooden floor.

I have long been wondering could anything like this actually be realistic. Log walls about 10 cm thick, I imagine, are massive enough to block a fair amount, but how much exactly I don't know. The fact that the sound would project to all 6 primary directions with no obstacles except the occasional tree here and there presents a completely different problem space than a concrete walled and floored urban garage or basement.

So. The reality would be a room about 3 x 3 x 2 metres, with 10 cm thick log walls, in the corner, so two outside walls. Floor and ceiling with basically zero blocking compared to the walls. A reduction such that the sound level measured from outside would be around 60 dB SPL would be required. What has occupied my mind is: is this feasible? (If the total cost would be many thousands of dollars for example... it would be possible but, to me, not feasible.)

(A simple approach: line the walls with 50 mm rockwool batts, strengthen the floor, float the drums, add insulation to the ceiling and add a layer of 15 mm plasterboard or drywall. Sounds reasonable, but would it work well enough?)

Sincerely,
 
And I will add that this is NOT purely a "thought experiment" or such. This actually exists, a place like this and I control it. I could even actually move there if I wanted to.
 
In my mind, the countryside is WORSE, because NOTHING in the environment helps. The closest neighbour is perhaps 10 times farther away than in the city, across a river even .. but theres nothing but wide open air in between.

An option would be to place the drum set in a log cabin. Picture something like this: http://cowboyloghomes.com/wp-conten...-home-bath-house-stained-cowboy-log-homes.jpg , except NOT with a full concrete base. But with a floating, and relatively thin wooden floor.

Huh?

Not following your thought process at all.
How exactly is the countryside "WORSE" because no one is around and "nothing but wide open air in between"....???
Why would you want/need to float a floor in a cabin in the woods...if your closest neighbor was "10 times farther away than in the city, across a river even"...???

Honestly...and I'm not trying to just bash your thinking...but it's like you continuously keep pushing aside all that is known, and you keep looking for some other solution that is based on some misconception about acoustics and the properties of sound.

Why?
 
Countryside is full of noisy tractors with no exhausts. You have to get up early to hear the birds.
 
The inverse square law works to your advantage.

If the nearest country neighbours are ten times further away, then what they hear will be a hundred times quieter than your nearest urban neighbour.

Furthermore, because of the way different frequencies attenuate, what they would hear is just a muffled thump of the kick every now and again.
 
I live in new construction and my house is no more than ~ 25 feet from the neighbors and I play drums at 2-3 am without them waking. Sure, if you happen to be right outside you are going to hear something but with the energy efficient construction mandated these days for my area the noise from one house does not really get into the next. Heck , my Klipsch speakers get way louder than the drums and you can just barely hear them in the neighbors when they are cranked(which is rare since they really are too loud to be in the same room with at that volume.)

I live on the edge of the country/suburbia border and in our city there are NO noise restrictions, though common sense is requested and some home owners association have noise rules.
 
Huh?

Not following your thought process at all.
How exactly is the countryside "WORSE" because no one is around and "nothing but wide open air in between"....???
Why would you want/need to float a floor in a cabin in the woods...if your closest neighbor was "10 times farther away than in the city, across a river even"...???

Honestly...and I'm not trying to just bash your thinking...but it's like you continuously keep pushing aside all that is known, and you keep looking for some other solution that is based on some misconception about acoustics and the properties of sound.

Why?

I'm specifically stating here and now that I'm looking for your thoughts and ideas on what would be effective. I have in no way referred to ANY kind of "alternate" solution. By "floating the drums" I meant placing them over an impact noise reducing carpet. I do that on concrete floors as well, and even then vibration noise/energy is measurably present and is transferred to for example mic stands, amplifiers and whatever is standing on the same floor. I always felt this is standard practice based on common sense, and certainly not anything that I "invented".

Regarding neighbours, if the neighbour in the city is 10 meters from the door, 10 times farther means 100 metres which is still not really that far away. I can easily walk to the river bank which is much close still and talk to him without needing a telephone, because there are no obstacles. In the city there are fences, parked cars, you name it and the ambient noise level overall is much higher. That's all I meant. I'm not trying to bash you either, or anything like that. I don't think my logic is that hard to follow, but of course it could be. It could also be false and I accept that. I really do.

My idea of the properties of sound is based mostly, quite simply, on what I have heard. In the "countryside", I have countless times heard people on the opposite side of a lake, more than a KILOMETRE away, heard them very clearly. Just people talking normally or maybe a little on the loud side. There can be no "misconception" there, you and I both know we believe what we have seen and heard first hand to be true, even if it for some reason doesn't make sense or shouldn't happen according to scientific theories.

What is your solution? Are you simply saying that assuming the nearest neighbour is 100 metres away, the the log cabin as is, would provide enough soundproofing? Would you say that from a distance of say, 50 metres, enough sound would already be dissipated? So I would need to do NOTHING in particular?
 
The inverse square law works to your advantage.

If the nearest country neighbours are ten times further away, then what they hear will be a hundred times quieter than your nearest urban neighbour.

Furthermore, because of the way different frequencies attenuate, what they would hear is just a muffled thump of the kick every now and again.

Hmm. I don't doubt the inverse square law... however isn't this particular example assuming that the sound reduction of the room would be the same to begin with? I might have misinterpreted this, correct me if I'm wrong.

One thing is simply that I KNOW what works to get the sound getting out of an urban garage to manageable levels, but I do NOT know anything about how any of that would apply in the scenario I presented. I just don't know.

If the solution indeed is that because of distance and distance only, no sound reduction measures whatsoever are needed, that would be great. However, so far none of the replies are directly saying this, so I still do not know.
 
Hmm. I don't doubt the inverse square law... however isn't this particular example assuming that the sound reduction of the room would be the same to begin with? I might have misinterpreted this, correct me if I'm wrong.

The inverse law applies in a 'free field' situation, i.e. there are no influences from structures or other features of the environment between source and listener. If the sources are within rooms, and the rooms have different absorption characteristics, the sound level immediately outside those rooms will differ. If there are then no influences outside the rooms, then the inverse law applies again: for every doubling of distance, you get a sound intensity reduction of 6db, even if they start off at different levels.

Environmental influences could be reflective hills or lakes, or absorptive woods or weather, and these would mess with the inverse square law.

What would come in handy would be knowing more precisely how far your nearest neighbour was in the country, and what the terrain was like between.
 
What is your solution? Are you simply saying that assuming the nearest neighbour is 100 metres away, the the log cabin as is, would provide enough soundproofing? Would you say that from a distance of say, 50 metres, enough sound would already be dissipated? So I would need to do NOTHING in particular?

Here we go again...you asking for solutions...then simply rejecting all of them and going off on some "what if" path where you come up with alternate ideas to solving your problem...whatever that is.

If you have better solutions...go try them out, why do you keep asking for solutions?
What happened to your "10 layers of blocking"...did you try that out?
Have you tried any of the suggestions given...or will just keep floating "what if" questions...?

Take your drums out to the country and bang away.
If the neighbor comes banging on your door to complain...then you'll know that the sound didn't dissipate enough, and you can then try putting down the floating floor and 10 layers of blocking...and then do it again and see if the neighbor comes back.

By now, you could have tried about 20 different things suggested here and found out what works and what doesn't.
 
Here we go again...you asking for solutions...then simply rejecting all of them and going off on some "what if" path where you come up with alternate ideas to solving your problem...whatever that is.

If you have better solutions...go try them out, why do you keep asking for solutions?
What happened to your "10 layers of blocking"...did you try that out?
Have you tried any of the suggestions given...or will just keep floating "what if" questions...?

Take your drums out to the country and bang away.
If the neighbor comes banging on your door to complain...then you'll know that the sound didn't dissipate enough, and you can then try putting down the floating floor and 10 layers of blocking...and then do it again and see if the neighbor comes back.

By now, you could have tried about 20 different things suggested here and found out what works and what doesn't.

You are confusing absolutely everything with absolutely everything else here. You are out of or mind.

The "10 layers of blocking" you are referring to has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this subject and this building here.

"Take the drums out to the country and bang away"? You don't understand ANY of the difficulties involved. Do you actually want me to explain them to you, or do you just want to keep continuing being an asshole? I'm done with being polite with you. I feel that you either have some sort of disorder (dyslexia? ADD?) or that you continually misunderstand me on PURPOSE. Because it's only you. Others have been happy to provide answers that obviously can be provided even with the relatively limited initial information from me, and I sincerely thank them for that. I've explicitly said "thank you" directly to many different people here. I have tried my absolute best to be friendly to everyone, on here just like in real life. I have had disagreements with people that were then later simply solved peacefully. But I have my limits. I do NOT respond well when I feel attacked, and repeatedly attacked, misrepresented and so on.

The thing is, the things you're posting are not in the end that harmful to ME, but they are to the subject. You're ruining it for OTHER people, those who are reading it, who are interested in the subject. What you're doing is simply not constructive. Stop picking a fight with me. I respect your knowledge and experience, but I do NOT respect or accept your behaviour. (edit) Oh, and please do say here publicly what you said to me privately. I tried asking you in a friendly way to address my questions directly, and to stop the nonsense. I will not make public your message to me without your permission. But you can repeat it here if you dare. Keeping in mind you used that as grounds to disapprove something I posted and take away from my reputation.

Mods (and other members) are welcome to chime in. If I'm not welcome to ask advice here or nothing I post here has generated valuable discussion or anything of any value at all, you are welcome to ask me to leave and not return.
 
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Spitzer - EVERY thing anyone here tells you is summarily rejected by you with nonsensical arguments. You NEVER actually try any of the suggestions, or even YOUR OWN ideas.
I suggest that everyone here - who HAVE been trying to advise you - just give up.
 
SPL decreases by -6dB for each doubling of the distance. While it might be 120dB in your room, moving 100 yards away will be much lower, then add the effect of any walls, and you probably wouldn't hear much if anything at all. I live about 200 yards from a major expressway, and I don't hear a thing when I'm inside. Outside, yes, I hear the road but it's not much higher than normal conversational volume, unless police and ambulances are driving by.
 
Spitzer - EVERY thing anyone here tells you is summarily rejected by you with nonsensical arguments. You NEVER actually try any of the suggestions, or even YOUR OWN ideas.
I suggest that everyone here - who HAVE been trying to advise you - just give up.

I kindly ask you to point to even a single instance in this thread where I have "rejected" something. I also ask you to point out examples of those "nonsensical" arguments. Because I don't see them. I say this very sincerely, whatever "nonsensical argument" you think I have used to reject someones suggestion or anything at all... please tell me what that argument is. WHAT does not make sense? I would in fact like to know that. That would help. THAT would be constructive.

The discussion here with gecko for example has been constructive and informative. It's been on point, no one has rejected anything, and I see it as valuable to me and other people reading it. Why should it be discontinued?
 
An option would be to place the drum set in a log cabin. Picture something like this: http://cowboyloghomes.com/wp-conten...-home-bath-house-stained-cowboy-log-homes.jpg , except NOT with a full concrete base. But with a floating, and relatively thin wooden floor.

We've got something like that in our garden. It provides virtually zero sound attenuation.

Look - I don't want to be rude but you really need to start listening to what people are telling you and putting in some work to understand the basics rather than continually come up with a stream of wacky ideas.
 
The inverse law applies in a 'free field' situation, i.e. there are no influences from structures or other features of the environment between source and listener. If the sources are within rooms, and the rooms have different absorption characteristics, the sound level immediately outside those rooms will differ. If there are then no influences outside the rooms, then the inverse law applies again: for every doubling of distance, you get a sound intensity reduction of 6db, even if they start off at different levels.

Environmental influences could be reflective hills or lakes, or absorptive woods or weather, and these would mess with the inverse square law.

What would come in handy would be knowing more precisely how far your nearest neighbour was in the country, and what the terrain was like between.

Yes. I think indeed most of the (technical) problem is related to the environment and terrain exactly. If it was on flat ground in the middle of a dense forest, there would be no problem to begin with, I suppose. But there ARE hills and lakes etc. involved. More precisely, right now I can only estimate but the nearest neighbour (that I know of) is maybe 30-35 metres away and on significantly lower ground.

re other stuff... some things mentioned are assuming infinite resources. For example, in case the question was why don't I test this and test that, the answer is that I CAN'T. I can't travel back and forth to places far away and buy expensive things just because. That's sort of the point. If I moved to the countryside, I'd need to figure things out BEFORE I moved there.
 
We've got something like that in our garden. It provides virtually zero sound attenuation.

Look - I don't want to be rude but you really need to start listening to what people are telling you and putting in some work to understand the basics rather than continually come up with a stream of wacky ideas.

I don't want to be rude either.

But what are you trying to say? Some of what people are telling me here is that even with zero sound attenuation there would be no problem (loud sounds would not be heard). I am listening.
 
If you have a choice between recording in the city or recording in the country, and it is a choice you can actual act upon, then going to the country is inherently a better option. There is not as great a need for soundproofing as there would be if you had neighbours in close proximity as you do in an urban environment. Nor does it require buying expensive things. You can just go there, set up some gear, fire it up and then go outside and listen.

I should add that I've been recording at my place for over twenty years. It's in a semi-rural location, but my nearest neighbour is just 17 metres away. I've never worried about soundproofing. In summer I often record with the windows open. During that time I have not had one complaint about noise (and I can get pretty loud at times).

However, you have to pick your times. I record during the day when most people around are at work. Recording late at night would not be a diplomatic tactic.
 
However, you have to pick your times. I record during the day when most people around are at work. Recording late at night would not be a diplomatic tactic.

Yes, I'm in a "rural residential" area also...and that's my approach too, and the reason I changed my new studio build from a planned double-wall design, to just the usual single wall, but with a double drywall layer. I realized that after 20 years of playing/recording in my old studio, with real drums being played and me often cranking my guitar amps even late at night...no one ever complained.

Of course, I generally don't attempt to record real drums at 2AM or anything like that...but I realized that obsessing over absolute soundproofing wasn't needed for my situation...and my nearest neighbor isn't much further than yours is. I even asked him if he could hear any noise in the later hours, as sometimes I'm still going at it at 1AM...and he said, no.

Here the ordinances are pretty relaxed. You can make a good deal of noise up to 11PM and no one will say anything. In the summer months, people will have backyard parties, and I can hear them from way down the road...but it's not something that would keep me up if I wanted to go to sleep.
So that's what people need to consider...just how much soundproofing is really needed...and how much do your neighbors hear, and care about it enough to complain.

There use to be a drummer who lived down the road...and every couple of days or so, I could hear him practicing....sometimes for hours. It wasn't like pounding right in my ear, rather you could just hear that someone was playing drums...not a big deal.
I meant to go find the house more than once, just to say I too am a musician, and maybe see if the guy wanted to jam sometimes...but never caught it at the right moment when he was playing...and then one day he stopped for good. Either the guy moved away or gave up the drums. :D
 
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