help building temporary studio

M

mindwave_21

New member
Hi everyone! Been a while since I posted at HR, but I've been busy trying to come up with songs and whatnot... :D . Anyways, I finally convinced my parents to let me have a room they were using to store junk to build my home studio in. At first, I was thinking of just lining the room with carpet to soundproof it...but that doesn't seem very effective after reading a few posts from this furom. I need suggestions from posters here as to how I should approach this. Before I do this, let me assure you I will read SAE's home recording guide, so please don't leave me a one sentence reply telling me to go read it.

Ok, so let me tell you the criteria:

1. Most importantly, the room should be more aurally isolated from the rest of the house than it is now. To clarify, I'd rather sacrifice some sound quality to be able to record with the room (possibly after everyone goes to sleep if I get that midnight inspiration...for some reason you think you have good ideas when you're barely awake..hehe) and not disturb my family. Things I'm particularly worried about isolating are my voice (male voice singing at a reasonable volume) and possibly an acoustic or very quiet electric guitar. I'm not going to have any drum or bass players in there at night.

I think/hope this should be fairly easy to do considering the location of the room. I'm guessing that it's approximately 10-12 feet wide by 15-20 feet long with hardwood floors and...ugh...NOISY fluorescent lights. To the left of the room is our 2-car garage, so not so worried about that. To the right is the house's structure (i.e. the room closest to it is the downstairs bathroom which is about 10 feet away through that right wall). Directly above is a computer room and a currently unused guest bedroom (not particularly worried about that). The entrance to the room has two fairly light 2" thick wooden doors (very noisy...could be a sound leak problem). The biggest problem lies straight ahead...a big single-pane glass sliding door that takes up the entire wall; I don't want my neighbors complaining about my volume at night...I've had that before...

2. It must be "temporary" in the sense that I can't do any heavy duty construction such as taking out the glass door and replace it with a wall. I'd happily place something over the doors, but I don't think my parents would let me do any demolition...due financial and sanity concerns :) . I think the most permanent thing I could do is switch the light fixtures to incandescent or putting a halogen lamp in the room and just leaving it at that. I can't smash any walls or put anything in between walls, but I think I can "cover" the walls. Keep in mind that this is my parents' house and I'm a 3rd year college student. The expected lifespan of this studio is probably around 5 years (maybe longer, but I'm being realistic in the sense that I have to move out sooner or later), and I'd hate to leave a studio behind that I can't set up somewhere else.

Those are the 2 criteria for my situation. Any and all suggestions are welcome. BTW, I know very little about soundproofing materials and costs, so if you could give me a rough estimate on price, that would be great. I think I'd like to keep my budget under $1,000 for sound proofing material alone (preferably more like $500, but I think I can convince them to help me out a little). Thanks for all the help on this great forum.
 
With what you describe, there's not a lot you can do. What you want to do is stop sound transmission so all the foam in the world won't do squat. If the parents would go for it, maybe sandwich on a layer of sound board with another skin of drywall. It could be removed when they kick you out and some spackling and a coat a paint would put it back to original. And replace the door (which many times is hollow) with something solid. Are there any windows in this room?
 
Track Rat said:
would put it back to original. And replace the door (which many times is hollow) with something solid. Are there any windows in this room?
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If the door is hollow, and not a complete piece of junk, you can take it off the hinges, drill small holes in the top, and pour in play sand with a funnel. I did that in an old apartment, it worked out very well.
 
The door is not hollow unfortunately; it's a 3/4 thick sheet of wood bordered by a thicker layer of wood, or something to that extent. Hey track rat, saw your studio on sayers's site...cool stuff! Anyways, I realize there isn't a lot I could do, but I'm just looking to see if lining the walls with carpet would do any good. What kind of effect would that have on recording (positive or negative compared to the bare room). I'm not looking to make it really soundproof, but just seeing if I should acoustically treat the room in any way to stop mid to high frequencies from leaking out...I guess that leads to muddy recordings.

I've also thought about taking some medium-density fiberboard and lining it with carpet (to stop random reverberations that could occur) and putting it up against the current walls by drilling and anchoring the boards into studs, thereby increasing wall mass...

Sayers's site seems to imply their are negative consequences to soundproofing the room, which is why we must acoustically treat it to retain that "open" sound. Am I wrong in thinking this?

I guess all I want to know is if there is anything...absolutely anything I should alter about the room to make it better sonically than it is now (soundproofing, sound treatment or otherwise) with bare floors, bare walls, and a sliding glass door in one of the walls.
 
What I would consider doing with your challenge is to build a freestanding iso booth inside the room, kind of like the double-layer whisper rooms. Between the sound isolation of the booth and what is already afforded by the walls the neighbors and rest of the house should keep the complaints down. The iso booth will not be a great sounding space. In fact the usual tactic is to make them completely dead because any reverb you get from the room will be small-room reverb.
 
Interesting though Innovations. How much money is involved in getting something like that up and running? Also, how large of an iso booth are we talking about? Will it be like a vocal booth, or am I utilizing more of the room? One final question...how large of a room provides "acceptable" reverb for recording situations?
 
how large of a room provides "acceptable" reverb for recording situations?
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I've also thought about taking some medium-density fiberboard and lining it with carpet (to stop random reverberations that could occur) and putting it up against the current walls by drilling and anchoring the boards into studs, thereby increasing wall mass...
Click to expand...
Hello mindwave_21
I am a little confused. Reverb IS reflections. Ether you want them or not.
BTW, it is not the size of the room. It is the decay in time that provides reverb. They call it RT-60, which is the time it takes for the sound to decay 60 db. A room such as yours could be lined with ceramic tile, and could in effect become a reverb chamber by virtue of reflections(think bathrooms). However, reverb in small rooms is inherently intertwined with room modes, which decay at different rates. Forget trying to use the room as an acoustic ambience. The
As to Sound Transmission Loss, the realities of your limitations suggest the following.
There is no way to significantly improve it, other than doing what Inno suggested. As to adding mass, the use of MDF panels WILL offer some TL improvement, but ONLY if you completely sheith the walls and ceiling, and caulk all joints, increase the mass of the door, and add seals. And even then, because of direct coupling to the existing structure, improvement would be slight compared to the permanance, work and money involved. As to the exterior sliding glass door, you would have to sheith right over it, but fill the cavity with insulation, which would look like hell from the exterior. But of course, this is all academic as "soundproofing" is in the ear of the beholder. One mans annoyance is anothers piss off. To absolutely guarantee containment, is by virtue of your limitations, impossible, other than build a booth, which in effect is a room within a room. Other than that, it is simply a gamble.
As to treatment, bite the bullet. Your use of carpet on panels is useless. $100 worth of 703 rigid fiberglass is your friend. Properly placed(do a search here) will do absolute wonders for your space, if you choose not to build a vocal booth, and if you do, use the 703 within it.
fitZ
 
703?

Thanks for the response Fitz. Sorry for the confusion but I knew that reverb and reflections are the same thing; I just used the 2 words for some variety, but that doesn't really mean anything...I just wanted to know if I wanted the room to be "dead" or not according to the size of the room. Anyways, I think a booth would be too much for my current situation, as I just started recording and I just need to have a room.
Anyways, if I choose to go the fiberglass route and place selected panels in the room (or cover the walls completely), what kind of health hazard is that? Asbestos comes to mind...along with fiberglass splinters...
Am I supposed to cover them in something to prevent people from brushing up against it? Will do a search, and thanks for the suggestions all!
 
Hello again. Yes, you would cover the rigid fiberglass panels with a fabric. You can either build frames, and staple the fabric to the rear edge(or any number of ways) or simply wrap the panels with fabric or sew them, or what ever. Even hot glue the seams to the back. But here is the real issue with absorbers such as these. The thickness determines the bandwidth. The thicker the panel, the lower the bandwidth. Up to a point. Now, picture this. Because velocity of the molecule MOVEMENT is ZERO at a boundary such as a wall, it is pointless to mount the panels directly up against the wall, as you are wasting the thickness of the panel in the first 1/2" or so. In fact, a 1" thick panel, mounted 3" from the exterior face to the wall, will perform almost equally as well as a 2" thick panel mounted directly to the wall. To space them out, there are many ways. A cleat across the back of a frame. A piece of 1x1 styrofoam cleat hot glued across the top and bottom of the panel itself. Be ingenious :D Another thought. The edges of panels also absorb. In fact, a 2'x4' panel 2" thick, has a whopping two extra square feet of absorption area, and it is at 90 degrees to the face, which will help with incident angle absorption of reflections off the adjacent wall. Don't butt these panels edge to edge either, as there is a phenomena known as the "edge effect", which basically states that for a given square footage of material, the total absorption is greater when applied to boundarys, if cut into patchs, than if applied in one piece. Don't ask me why. What this says, is on the side walls, space your panels about a foot apart. Not only that, but this(so I've been told by an acoustician) will help with diffusion, as you get reflection and absorption off the same boundary. However, placement in relationship to your console or mixing position will be important. So is speaker position. Although I am not the person to tell you how to set them up correctly in your space. One more thing though. Because room modes terminate in corners of an enclosure(floor/walls-walls/walls-walls/ceiling), you will get your best bass trapping, by placing some of these panels, across the wall/wall intersections, floor to ceiling. If you have enough, I would even place some of these at the wall/ceiling corners. Although, different modes are absorbed by different locations. And don't ask me to explain. ;) However, this all has to do with an idea for your closet
I do have a suggestion for using your closet, although I have no time at the moment. I will have my new computer up and running sunday night, and I can post some Autocad files that were on my old computer. They show what I would do. Untill then, cheers.
fitZ

PS. I didn't mean to negate anyones suggestions as to improving the TL in your room. And I'm sure, with a few modifications, such as a solid core door, some weatherstripping, maybe folding solid core panels over the sliding glass door, and a few other things, you could improve the TL enough for vocals, and acoustic guitar to not bother someone. Thats NOT to say it would be perfect, but good enough. As to pouring sand into a hollowcore door, most of them are already filled with a cardboard honeycomb. You can't fill those type. You could find a cheap solid core door at a salvage yard. I just bought one for a whopping $3 at a yardsale :D In fact, my idea for your closet, would require 4-6 solid panels(doors), the sliding glass door would require 4, and your door 1. You will see my idea in a couple of days.
 
mindwave_21 said:
Interesting though Innovations. How much money is involved in getting something like that up and running? Also, how large of an iso booth are we talking about? Will it be like a vocal booth, or am I utilizing more of the room? One final question...how large of a room provides "acceptable" reverb for recording situations?
Click to expand...
You aren't really going to get great sounding reverb out of a booth size room, which is why the strategy in making a booth is to get zero reverb.

Most of the kit booths are some multiple of 4x4 feet, 7 feet high because the raw materials are 4 by eight feet. A symmetrical room is hardly desirable though. The dimensions of 4 by 5 by 7 feet have good numbers.

There are many different approaches to take to making a standalone sound both.

1. Single layer of 3/4 inch MDF plywood screwed to 2 x 2 corners completely covered with absorbtion panels on the interior. Helps, but not a whole lot.

2. Two layers of 3/4 inch MDF plywood screwed to corners with an insulated airspace between. If you get good seals on the door then this can get you maybe a 30 or so STC. Because this is well sealed you will want some sort of a ventillation system. It will need to have an indirect air path with absorbing materials so that it isnt just a hole in the wall letting sound in and out.

3. Use stud construction. What STC you get will be based on the same sort of consideratons as any other stud construction. You will spend more on the studs, but Gypsum Board is cheaper than MDF.
 
Thanks again to both Fitz and Innovations. I think that I will try Fitz's suggestion, as I'd like to use as much of the room as possible (not to say anything negative about Inno's ideas, but that may be a bit extreme for what I'm trying to do at this point in time...). BTW, I never mentioned a closet Fitz...but there is a very small one about 3X3X7 (too small to fit anybody inside with the shelves...person with a guitar...don't even ask...). Hmmm...Maybe make that a vocal booth if I clear it out and use the rest of the room for the control room?
One final note. Fitz, are you saying I should make many small square panels and place them in a random pattern on my walls? Also, are the pads in the corner of the room going to be differently shaped than others? Sorry if I sound confused...just a little difficult to visualize the things you described without actually having seen them before...
 
Fitz, are you saying I should make many small square panels and place them in a random pattern on my walls? ..
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Yes and No, just use the panels as they come, 2'x4', but just don't put them edge to edge. Leave some wall space between them. You will want to place the ones on the side walls adjacent to the mixing position correctly too. Also, perhaps as a cloud on the ceiling. Later on placement.
Also, are the pads in the corner of the room going to be differently shaped than others? Sorry if I sound confused...just a little difficult to visualize the things you described without actually having seen them before...
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No, they go diagonally across the corner, in the 2' direction. 2 panels high, floor to ceiling. There are many ways to keep them in place. The reason is a variable depth to the wall intersection. This makes for a lower broadband abosorption. If I were you, I would try to find the Owens Corning 4" thick panels. You could even split one lengthwise, and place a narrow piece behind the full width panels in the corners. As to your layout, I'll have to look at it tomorrow. I thought your closet was wider than you say now.
But its late. I just got back from taking my wife to the hospital. Nothing bad. Just checking. But its WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY past this old farts bedtime. :p
Talk more tomorrow.
fitZ
 
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