Greetings & Plans

Garrett Norvell

New member
Hi all!

long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've been mucking about as a hobby composer for almost 20 years and finally have the opportunity to build a proper home studio in my new basement. Attached are 1. the current basement layout, 2. my initial box-within-a-box studio, 3. a coffin-within-a-box studio, and 4. pics of the space. My biggest sources of noise are the furnace/water heaters (we're in ohio now, so those will be on pretty much non-stop for the next 6 months) and my family walking around on the ceiling above. It is a poured concrete walls/floor, 8'8" to the bottom of the 12" wood joists; there is currently no insulation anywhere to be seen. It is a raw space, but has a lot of potential (I think).

Use: I will almost exclusively be recording my own vocals (rarely live drums or amped bass) so having a recording/mixing desk with a good listening position and a good mic'ing position in the same room is crucial. VERY unlikely to ever need to record a full band.
Goals: record clean pop vocals with fairly even frequency response; approach ZERO leakage of sound into or out of the recording/mixing space.
Space: about a third of the basement can be dedicated to a combined recording/mixing room, keeping a large chunk for storage and bar/lounge.

Questions
1. Should I bother BUILDING a studio? Or should I stick with my ClearSonic vocal booth, throw some acoustic foam and traps on the cement walls, and just be done with it?
2. IF building, is this the best part of the basement to use?
3. Should I bother making the coffin-shape? Or stick to a rectangle 19'x15.5'? Do I NEED it to be as wide as possible (or is the 19' length the important factor?) Any utility in making it more narrow??
4. If coffin, is there an optimal angle for the walls?
5. Am I even in the right ballpark for a diy build with a $10k budget? (I don't expect to ever MAKE money on my music)

Thanks in advance! If you'd like some LOL's follow along as I try to build this thing (o;

cheers n' blessings,
Garrett
 

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Jealous. I miss my basements. I had to build my studio in the garage. :(

Questions
1. Should I bother BUILDING a studio? Or should I stick with my ClearSonic vocal booth, throw some acoustic foam and traps on the cement walls, and just be done with it?
- Build the studio. It becomes more than just a place to make music.

2. IF building, is this the best part of the basement to use?
- Looks good to me. I personally would not have it run right up to the stairs like that. I would provide a hallway. For me, it seems easier to build and to get around the space.

3. Should I bother making the coffin-shape? Or stick to a rectangle 19'x15.5'? Do I NEED it to be as wide as possible (or is the 19' length the important factor?) Any utility in making it more narrow??
- Really your choice. Construction-wise, it is a little more involved, but not by much. Benefit-wise. It will help some, but the more important factor will be room treatment.

4. If coffin, is there an optimal angle for the walls?
- Don't know.

5. Am I even in the right ballpark for a diy build with a $10k budget? (I don't expect to ever MAKE money on my music)
- Don't know. But yeah, I think you should be able to do everything for under $10k if you are a DIYer. I think I could.

No insulation. What is the climate where you live? Winters? You might want insulation and heat. If you have a/c for the summers, it will always be cool down there.
 
Great thoughts, Chili -thank you!
Reason for going up to the stairs was to get as long a room as I could; I’m hoping that the floating 2nd walls will help prevent noise transfer, but perhaps I should just shorten the room too.
Insulation: I am definitely cold blooded and things do get cold in Ohio. I’m planning on filling the floating wall and the outer studio walls with acoustic fiberglass. What do you think about filling the space BETWEEN the two walls? Better to leave an air pocket or pack it with mass? I’ve seen recommendations go both ways.
Thanks again!
-g
 
I think if you pack the walls, it's a benefit. Safe 'N Sound of something. I'd go with the "coffin" and fill that space with rigid fiberglass or rockwool. That's going to make a fairly dead space, so you can always add some reflective surfaces later. It'll also be a giant broadband trap, which is a wonderful thing where there's lots of concrete around.

But most definitely - Make accomodations for HVAC. You can always close vents and returns. But you can't open them if they're not there. I made an idiot move here by putting in a hot air return (several, actually) but no cold air return. Never thought I'd need one. I was wrong. It's a LOT easier and a lot cheaper to do it while you're building.

As far as measurements - I'd highly suggest a book or two by F. Alton Everest -- Just look at the titles and you'll know which ones to get.
 
I'd consider a room within a room that's a bit smaller, and well treated, including a double door. The ceiling is going to be a big problem but I wouldn't want to reduce the height much, so Safe'n'Sound or even denser material behind some acoustic tile paneling is probably the best you can do. Your vocals won't penetrate into that space enough to bother anyone, and it's unlikely that overhead traffic is going to be so constant you won't be able to use the space sometimes. I.e., I'd concentrate on keeping sound from going out, and that's probably achievable.

The 2nd pic looks fine, but if you provide an airgap and insulate both walls the room will get smaller. But, that's not necessarily a bad thing for what you're doing. If you look at a room mode calculator, you'll see that your proposed dimensions aren't as ideal in some respects as a smaller room, like 18x12.

You will still need to treat the interior space with broadband and bass traps.

amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

Lucky you, having so much space to work with!

P.S. Somewhere among the videos out there about room treatment there's a detailed one that shows test data where having insulated walls that are finished only on the outside (visible) surfaces, with an open airspace between them, has the the best sound reduction.
 
Since you will only be recording vocals (where noise from upstairs and furnace is a concern), I woudlnt' worry too much about that aspect - just tell the family to be quiet for an hour (that's what I do!)

Have you considered building the studio room in the upper section? 16" wide x 20 feet long + the 'bar area - much better than the almost-square area you are contemplating. This also leaves the door form the stairs OUTSIDE the studio area.

I also recommend you add fiberglass insulation (pink or yellow stuff into the ceiling joists) - this really will help keep the house warmer in the winter (at the expense of having to heat your studio a little when you work in there. When I added insulation to my basement ceiling, I couldn't believe the difference it made upstairs.
 
Good info!
I'll check out the calculator and consider re-sizing my room.
To confirm the last bit as applied to a room within a room: studio space --> treatments --> drywall --> Studs w/ Safe'n'Sound/equivalent --> [NO DRYWALL] --> air gap --> [NO DRYWALL] --> Studs w/ Safe'n'Sound/equivalent --> drywall --> living space ? I seem to recall this video -thanks for reminding me!

If you look at a room mode calculator, you'll see that your proposed dimensions aren't as ideal in some respects as a smaller room, like 18x12.
...
P.S. Somewhere among the videos out there about room treatment there's a detailed one that shows test data where having insulated walls that are finished only on the outside (visible) surfaces, with an open airspace between them, has the the best sound reduction.
 
Good info!
I'll check out the calculator and consider re-sizing my room.
To confirm the last bit as applied to a room within a room: studio space --> treatments --> drywall --> Studs w/ Safe'n'Sound/equivalent --> [NO DRYWALL] --> air gap --> [NO DRYWALL] --> Studs w/ Safe'n'Sound/equivalent --> drywall --> living space ? I seem to recall this video -thanks for reminding me!
Yes, that's pretty much it. Of course, if you double up the drywall with some of that "green" adhesive that will further reduce sound transmission, and more LF content, but it'll add more cost.

I just kept making the numbers smaller - you might find other dimensions that give you more space that are workable.
 
LOVE it! I'll run those dimensions in the Room Mode Calculator and give that some strong consideration. It would be nice to have those egress windows available when my gear overheats :listeningmusic:
As for insulation, I will be adding LOADS -in the walls, in the ceiling, and I may stuff some inside my clothes in the winter LOL (...itching vs cold...)
thanks!
Have you considered building the studio room in the upper section? 16" wide x 20 feet long + the 'bar area - much better than the almost-square area you are contemplating. This also leaves the door form the stairs OUTSIDE the studio area.

I also recommend you add fiberglass insulation (pink or yellow stuff into the ceiling joists) - this really will help keep the house warmer in the winter (at the expense of having to heat your studio a little when you work in there. When I added insulation to my basement ceiling, I couldn't believe the difference it made upstairs.
 
thank you!

Yes, that's pretty much it. Of course, if you double up the drywall with some of that "green" adhesive that will further reduce sound transmission, and more LF content, but it'll add more cost.

I just kept making the numbers smaller - you might find other dimensions that give you more space that are workable.
 
The "acoustic" guys have you pretty sorted for ideas so I shall mention one other thing..Wires!

Put in LOADS. As there is a budget and HD balanced cable costs, consider screened CAT 5e cable for fixed lines. I would clip PVC water waste pipe to the walls and have a really good think as to where you might need cable runs to and from. The CAT cable can teminate in cheap conduit boxes (you can get 4 XLRs across our 80mm double outlet box).

Another economical cable type is two core foil screened with an OD of around 3-4mm (bit over 1/8") it has a copper ground "drain" wire and is MUCH easier to strip and terminate than braided shields, also no risk of "whiskers" shorting stuff out. Foil is a superior screen at RF.

I shall trust you know what you are doing with mains power installation or know a man who does!

Dave.
 
Hiya Dave!
I know less about wiring than I do about acoustics! heheh I'll have to do some research to thoroughly understand your recommendations but I REALLY do appreciate them. (o: I am going to have an electrician do my power wiring down in the basement but was plaaaaaning on doing the speakers and lines myself. I have some reading ahead of me...
thanks,
g

The "acoustic" guys have you pretty sorted for ideas so I shall mention one other thing..Wires!

Put in LOADS. As there is a budget and HD balanced cable costs, consider screened CAT 5e cable for fixed lines. I would clip PVC water waste pipe to the walls and have a really good think as to where you might need cable runs to and from. The CAT cable can teminate in cheap conduit boxes (you can get 4 XLRs across our 80mm double outlet box).

Another economical cable type is two core foil screened with an OD of around 3-4mm (bit over 1/8") it has a copper ground "drain" wire and is MUCH easier to strip and terminate than braided shields, also no risk of "whiskers" shorting stuff out. Foil is a superior screen at RF.

I shall trust you know what you are doing with mains power installation or know a man who does!

Dave.
 
Hiya Dave!
I know less about wiring than I do about acoustics! heheh I'll have to do some research to thoroughly understand your recommendations but I REALLY do appreciate them. (o: I am going to have an electrician do my power wiring down in the basement but was plaaaaaning on doing the speakers and lines myself. I have some reading ahead of me...
thanks,
g

Excel Cat5e Ftp Screened - Excel Cat5e Cable - Cat5e Products - Excel Cat 5e Screened F Utp Cable Pvc

Just to give you some idea, the above runs out at around $100 US I would think* The MO is thus. Each cable has 4 pairs very tightly twisted with an overall foil screen and drain wire. You can therefore get 4 mic/line circuits per cable. The pair are solid wire but very ductile and I have never known them break even with rough handling and you would not be doing that. You will just solder the wires to the back of XLR or TRS sockets. Naturally the actual mic etc cables will be flexibles.

Now, you might think that parallel cables like that would give rise to crosstalk? Well, maybe if a cable shared a kick signal and a ribbon on a dulcima but with a bit of thought I think CTalk would be in the noise floor.

Cat 5e cable can carry a shedload of other things. Video is one, basic composite plus two audio tracks can go down one cable. HDMI can go down a pair. S/PDIF (both ways?) and I have even sent MIDI data 20mtrs with no trouble. And of course PC Ethernet! CPC/Farnell do a wide range of adaptors. Massive multitrack digital audio over networks is the coming trend.

*Also check out any local networking companies. The one I worked for put klicks of the stuff in a skip several times a year. They will probably GIVE you stuff that is just out of top spec (far, far beyond audio, even video needs) or has cosmetic damage.

Dave.
 
Ohhhh, I get it! Great suggestion Dave. That sounds like the way to go. I was going to use some cat5 ethernet anyway so that I wound't depend on wifi inside my heavily insulated box, but this opens up a whole new world for me. (o: thanks again man.
g
Excel Cat5e Ftp Screened - Excel Cat5e Cable - Cat5e Products - Excel Cat 5e Screened F Utp Cable Pvc

Just to give you some idea, the above runs out at around $100 US I would think* The MO is thus. Each cable has 4 pairs very tightly twisted with an overall foil screen and drain wire. You can therefore get 4 mic/line circuits per cable. The pair are solid wire but very ductile and I have never known them break even with rough handling and you would not be doing that. You will just solder the wires to the back of XLR or TRS sockets. Naturally the actual mic etc cables will be flexibles.

Now, you might think that parallel cables like that would give rise to crosstalk? Well, maybe if a cable shared a kick signal and a ribbon on a dulcima but with a bit of thought I think CTalk would be in the noise floor.

Cat 5e cable can carry a shedload of other things. Video is one, basic composite plus two audio tracks can go down one cable. HDMI can go down a pair. S/PDIF (both ways?) and I have even sent MIDI data 20mtrs with no trouble. And of course PC Ethernet! CPC/Farnell do a wide range of adaptors. Massive multitrack digital audio over networks is the coming trend.

*Also check out any local networking companies. The one I worked for put klicks of the stuff in a skip several times a year. They will probably GIVE you stuff that is just out of top spec (far, far beyond audio, even video needs) or has cosmetic damage.

Dave.
 
You're lucky as hell to have this space and the possibilities are endless to get a real studio here. I'd say on a 10k budget it's more than reasonable to expect a good tracking room and a good control room. Personally , i wouldn't use iso rooms . You can use isolation features within the tracking room to reduce bleed from other instruments. Angled walls and build your own traps would probably reduce your budget. One thing i would concentrate on is your electric outlets and lighting. Make sure are each on its own dedicated circuits. YOU SHOULD build a sub panel just for the recording/tracking space.Oh, and have a toilet somewhere so no one has to use to house.
 
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