General confusion over polystyrene

The thing here that is the constant and only rule is physics. Conservation of energy. Converting one form of energy into another. This is why there is no need to test products to predict basic behaviour. You can do the prediction simply. You need to test to determine how exactly the conversion performs, but you know something works or won't work - the variable is how much?

Polystyrene has very specific features. Its thermal performance is well know - to the touch it's always warm, but it's very hard - especially when cut via heated wires that cut and seal by melting the surface. Formed building foam being rougher on the outside than packing foam. Physics lets you determine that one will reflect similar to a hard panel, and the other will difuse because of the number of slightly different angles. The hard surfaces absorb very little and the polystyrene takes up very little of the sound energy as heat. On soft foam, the proportion of sound converted to heat is higher, but we know this is frequency dependent - bass goes right through largely unaffected, HF getting the heat conversion. A membrane absorber is quite hard, which should reflect, but it moves, and the sound is converted to kinetic energy - the vital bit being there's less sound left! Polystyrene because if the lack of mass/weight won't allow this conversion.

As an audio inexpert, my level of physics lets me predict the basic functions but I cannot quantify it, but I can understand what is happening. Plasterboard vs MDF is a good one. Plasterboard seems a good audio product because of how it responds to sound - some reflection, some absorbtion, plenty of mass, but MDF has a hard sealed surface, so has mass and reflection properties. How does painting plasterboard impact on the figures and performance? Don't know from doing it. Acousticians can read and really understand the specs. Less able people like me can only understand the lower tier of data. Good to learn though!

Thank you.

As an audio inexpert... I just decided to do a small test, just because I can. A 50mm thick sheet/block of EPS held directly between the LF sound source and the microphone causes a hefty 6 dB reduction in the resulting recording. Across all frequencies (lowpass at 1 kHz -- same reduction). It also distorts the sound oddly, like a flanger effect.

I also tried to set a small piece of it on fire. Pretty cozy, almost like a candle wick. But i put it out since I believe the fumes are toxic.
 
Thank you.

1) As an audio inexpert... I just decided to do a small test, just because I can. A 50mm thick sheet/block of EPS held directly between the LF sound source and the microphone causes a hefty 6 dB reduction in the resulting recording. Across all frequencies (lowpass at 1 kHz -- same reduction).

2)It also distorts the sound oddly, like a flanger effect.

3) I also tried to set a small piece of it on fire. Pretty cozy, almost like a candle wick. But i put it out since I believe the fumes are toxic.

1) - That reduction is most likely because of reflection, not absorption.

2) see 1), reflection off of uneven surfaces

3) foolish!
 
1) - That reduction is most likely because of reflection, not absorption.

2) see 1), reflection off of uneven surfaces

3) foolish!

Yes, I should mention I do not presume to know WHY it causes anything it does. I also didn't mention other details, such as the sheet being comparatively small, sound can easily travel around it what with the 8 foot tall ceiling, the surrounding walls are painted concrete, et cetera. No one cares.

However... most (?) people have studios built with DRYWALL on the inside. Extremely reflective and not at all absorbent.

(concerning "foolish"... honestly, you should have seen it. It burns REALLY slowly and is even sort of difficult to ignite. It's not napalm. It's not even like paper.)
 
One use we found for EXPS in the radio service trade was when we found you could dissolve an almost infinite amount in trichlorethelene 'Trike' in the trade. Once it was the viscosity of treacle it was a very handy weak 'glue' used for locking IF transformer cores. I bet nobody here knows WTF they are?

Dave.
 
It's EXTREMELY difficult to tell what kind of help you are looking for. Honestly. I do not know.

You don't know? In your very first reply you yourself tried to answer the question, in some detail. Many others have provided more details. I just don't see your problem. I will gladly try to clarify anything I said, if needed.
 
One use we found for EXPS in the radio service trade was when we found you could dissolve an almost infinite amount in trichlorethelene 'Trike' in the trade. Once it was the viscosity of treacle it was a very handy weak 'glue' used for locking IF transformer cores. I bet nobody here knows WTF they are?

Dave.

You win. I don't know what any of that stuff is... but... and... I don't get it. How or why did you have all that stuff in the first place? Was that just the easiest way to make glue?
 
In your very first reply you yourself tried to answer the question, in some detail.

Oh...so now you admit I WAS trying to be helpful.

You got a bunch of good answers to your Styrofoam questions...yet you seem to want some different answers.
What more do you need?
 
Oh...so now you admit I WAS trying to be helpful.

You got a bunch of good answers to your Styrofoam questions...yet you seem to want some different answers.
What more do you need?

I did not say you weren't trying to be helpful, I said it's difficult to tell. Important difference.

You seem to want to try to read my mind, instead of reading what i actually said. Déjà vu. There is no hidden agenda, I don't want to "swing the world my way". I know that's something I can not do.

What more do I need? There's always more. I will NEVER know everything about the world. There will always be more questions.
 
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Stick to the Styrofoam topic...we can move on to world issues and the cure for cancer in some other thread.

What more do you need to know about Styrofoam as an acoustic treatment option?
I think the reason you think that your mind is being read, is because it's unclear what more you are after WRT this topic.
 
You win. I don't know what any of that stuff is... but... and... I don't get it. How or why did you have all that stuff in the first place? Was that just the easiest way to make glue?

Yeah! Cubic bloody meters of the stuff...EVERTHING was packed in it and it was used for insulation in fridges and lofts. "Intermediate Frequency Transformer" but if I told you what one of those was for I would have to explain the principle of the Super Heterodyne Radio Receiver and then I would have to kill you.

And yes M, WAY OT. Getting coat...

Dave.
 
miroslav said:

I'm non-plussed by your near-antagonistic social approach. I don't get it. Are you simply THAT serious? There's stuff concerning EPS that I don't know or understand, so much so that even formulating a question is complicated (I don't know physics per se very well). But you would just answer whatever I still need to know? That's kind of you, and I mean that.

There's a rectangular melamine covered fibreboard cabinet with a flat TV in it. Because of the extremely hard surfaced, flat and square walls (my assumption), the sound from the TV echoes/bounces from the back wall again through the TV itself causing what I suppose is a phase shift and some other unknown distortion, making speech in particular very hard to hear and comprehend. Placing an EPS sheet (50 mm) roughly the size of the TV (oh, it's 48" btw) behind the TV aka between the TV and the back wall, the audio is MUCH clearer (according to two other witnesses in addition to myself). Why? Explain the entire phenomenon and please ask for more details and clarifications if needed.

Thank you.
 
I'm non-plussed by your near-antagonistic social approach. I don't get it. Are you simply THAT serious? There's stuff concerning EPS that I don't know or understand, so much so that even formulating a question is complicated (I don't know physics per se very well). But you would just answer whatever I still need to know? That's kind of you, and I mean that.

There's a rectangular melamine covered fibreboard cabinet with a flat TV in it. Because of the extremely hard surfaced, flat and square walls (my assumption), the sound from the TV echoes/bounces from the back wall again through the TV itself causing what I suppose is a phase shift and some other unknown distortion, making speech in particular very hard to hear and comprehend. Placing an EPS sheet (50 mm) roughly the size of the TV (oh, it's 48" btw) behind the TV aka between the TV and the back wall, the audio is MUCH clearer (according to two other witnesses in addition to myself). Why? Explain the entire phenomenon and please ask for more details and clarifications if needed.

Thank you.


:facepalm: :D

You were probably the kid who endlessly asked "why?" no matter how many or how well questions were answered.

OK...place an old blanked on the same back wall, and I'm sure that too will cause a change. Maybe stack some old newspapers, that too will cause a change.

I mean really WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO KNOW?
It was understood that you were asking if Styrofoam would work as well for acoustic treatment as the more commonly used materials, like fiberglass, rockwool...etc...and pretty much everyone has said NO...and some of us also provided explanations as to why, and even provided some test results...

...but you are STILL going on about "WHY?"...???

No, I'm not "antagonistic"...I just find that you are one of those people who likes to piss against the wind, and then refuse to accept people's explanations as to why your pants are getting wet. :)
 
You're right, you're the one here who just keeps on trolling for no reason.

I told you three days ago that I didn't much care anymore about your Styrofoam discussion because the questions were answered, help was provided, and to go ahead and use your Styrofoam if you think it's the right choice...but you kept coming back to keep it going.

Three days later you dissected that post I made, quoted me several times, because you were looking for a reason to keep discussion with me going....now you say I'm trolling...? :D
Me thinks you ARE here just for the pointless banter...so don't complain when you get it. ;)
Besides...there's nothing in this thread of any redeeming significance in this that could be trolled. You need something of substance first, before you can troll it.

By that way...have you tried the old blanket behind the TV yet?
I thought that was a very helpful tip for you.
 
Just quit busting my balls man. I don't get what your problem is.

Actually, now that I think of it, I think the first thing I tried was to tape old newspapers to that back wall and slam some couch pillows in the corners. That also worked quite well. I also tried a thin mattress from an old yard chair and yes, of course the old blanket. Do you think I'm stupid or what?
 
Polystyrene foam is not only FIRE HAZARD, but it is also providing absolutely LETHAL gas if there is even a little fire !!! So be as careful as possible with it. And not any polystyrene foam is right for damping acoustics in the room. If it is closed cell foam - it is only providing diffuse reflections (and only if it has not a flat surface), what is better as nothing but not enough :). Open-cell foam is providing damping too, but the lowest damped frequency depends on foam's thickness (wavelength of frequency). And normally used foam is not thick enough. For example, 5...10cm thick foam is damping just higher frequencies, not even mids...
 
Do you think I'm stupid or what?

I don't know....maybe "or what".

Since you tried all those things behind the TV...did you do a formal test with scientific measurements to determine which of those worked the best...and where the Styrofoam fell in the numbers?

Could you please show us the test results so that we may better understand your conclusions.

:D

You really need to lighten up and get a sense of humor. :)
 
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