Complete beginner wanting to record!

S

Space

New member
Hello, I am completely new to recording music myself so I am in need of a lot of help!

I am looking at recording my band in a live situtation with us all playing at once, then overdubbing vocals and a few extra guitar noises, sounds and the like. The band consists of drums, two guitars and bass.

Basically, what do I need to do this? Cheaply, but effectively. Ideally I would like to record onto my macbook pro into logic, or onto a separate digital device to import them into my macbook pro for tweaking.

I have a macbook pro and a m audio m track plus that I have been using to record rough ideas, but I obviously cannot use this to mic up a whole band!

Any help is appreciated, and if this is posted in the wrong place then please direct me to the correct location.

Thanks in advance,
Space.
 
**Edit - sorry, just seen you have 2 Guitars, so the 4 channel input below wouldn't work so great for you. I would suggest the 6 Channel inputs at the bottom - using the Steinberg**

At the very least you'll need 4 individual inputs....something like the Akai EIE LE Akai EIE - Thomann UK would connect via USB to your MacBook the same way as the M Audio interface and allow you to record the Guitar, Bass, and 2 Overhead mics that can be set up in the Glyn Johns method to record the Drums. That's the very least if you wanted to record all at once.

Another option is to use your M Audio M Track Plus and record the drums first, with just 2 Overheads, and then overdub the Guitars and Bass afterwards.

The other option would be for something with 6 inputs which would allow you to record the Guitars, Bass and Drums with 2 Overheads, and close mic'ing the Kick and Snare. Something like this Steinberg interface - Steinberg UR44 - Thomann UK would work for this.

Obviously I don't know what your budget is etc, so these are just options
 
Tascam 1800, lots of bang for the buck (or pound or Euro, or ...). Really nice unit, inexpensive, good drivers (at least on MS OSes) 8 mic (with phantom), and 6 line. Just a really nice unit for the money.

I am not saying there are not other equally good or better interfaces. But from what I have read and my own experience (recording a whole band), I have been very pleased with this unit. I use it mainly as a mobile recording unit.
 
Thanks for all your help!

By the sounds of it I am going to need an interface (like my M-Audio box) that has enough inputs for the amount of microphones that I will be using to record the full band. So 6 inputs seems to be the minimum that I could get away with but 8 would be nice to have more mics for the drums. Am I correct in thinking this?

Also, will all of the separate inputs be recorded onto separate tracks into logic? They won't be grouped together once recorded will they?

I really appreciate all of the help that you guys are giving me!
 
Personally, I would have 1 for each Guitar, 1 for the Bass, and have 2 Overheads, 1 on the Snare, 1 on the Kick and either the Hi Hat or Floor Tom as close mics, depending on the type of playing, which would need 8 inputs. That would give you a good range of the Drums.

Depending on your DAW, if it is capable of recording multiple channels, then yes, these would be recorded as individual mono tracks. I know some DAWS such as Logic Express limit the amount of simultaneous recording channels, so it depends on what you use.
 
I'm with Dave on the 1800. Using one now. What he said, plus 2u rackmount so it can be mounted in with the rest of your gear, plus headphone out for monitoring what you're getting live. 8 mics gives you 2-3 for vocals and 5-6 for drums plus 6 line ins (2 of which can be selected as instrument in) gives you plenty of flex for guitars/bass/keys. And again as Dave said, it's reasonably priced.

You can keep your M-Audio at home for overdubs and leave the Tascam in the road gear for live recording. Nice setup. :D
 
Next thing you have to look at is drum mikes if you haven't already got them. Then cabling from your pa to your interface (use the channel inserts on the mixer). Shouldn't run more than $700-800 total if you get a reasonably priced mike pack + US 1800 + cables. Also, consider miking the guitars (bass is easy to di well you just need a di box). Find a good system of miking the cabinets to get the sound you want. A pair of SM57s and some stands will add another $250 to the mix, but will be worth their weight in gold if you set them up proper.
 
I am using an Audix mic set for the drums, run the toms to 1/4 (dynamic mics 12-14), Kick and snare to 9-10 for gain control, 7-8 for over heads (condenser) 1-6 for vocals and guitars. All feeds are direct to the interface.

Other than the overheads for the drums, all mics are dynamic, either direct cab micing, or split the vocals before the PA and run into the interface. That way, I don't worry about the PA mix.

First run, no noise to either the interface or to the PA. No gain issues that I could tell either. However, if the vocals condensers, you will have to use a something like this: ART S8-3WAY Which is probably good to have around anyway. But for the dynamic vocal mics, I just used a simple splitter.
 
If cash is a primary concern, you could also buy/borrow a mixer with enough channels to mic up everything and run that to your existing interface. You would however lose your ability to mix individual tracks/instruments as the output of most inexpensive analog mixers will of course be in stereo. If you spend some time setting up your mics and a little EQing you could probably get a decent recording. Then overdub to your hearts content. Another way would be to get a gig somewhere that already has a sound system and bring your pc/interface and just line out of thier mixer, take your time setting everything up and cross your fingers for a decent live recording.

"overdubbing", This is basically tracking, which is how your going to get the best recording with your existing interface. Set up a couple of mics in the room. Do a few short warm up takes to get the levels decent. Have the whole band play the songs togather. Record these tracks individually. These tracks are now your "scratch tracks". Now , starting with drums, you can track everything individually using the scratch tracks as the reference the players will be playing along to in thier closed back headphone monitors. Now you have clean individual tracks of each instrument to mix/EQ and you can drop the scratch track. This method could be even better/easier if everyone had a click track to play to in the beginning and you had more than 2 inputs for drums, but it would be the cheapest/best way using your existing equipment. Maybe someone else will toss out some ideas for you on that,. For Example: (2 tracks are drum overheads in one take, and then have bass(direct in) and drums(kick drum mic) as another 2 track take)? Or using a small 4 channel mixer to sub the drums down to a stereo track,.
 
In addition to the above-mentioned Tascam US-1800, also take a look at the Roland Octa-Capture and the Presonus Audiobox or FireStudio. They all have 8 mic preamps built-in, as well as additional line inputs that might come in handy.
 
dyermaker8 said:
If cash is a primary concern, you could also buy/borrow a mixer with enough channels to mic up everything and run that to your existing interface. You would however lose your ability to mix individual tracks/instruments as the output of most inexpensive analog mixers will of course be in stereo. If you spend some time setting up your mics and a little EQing you could probably get a decent recording. Then overdub to your hearts content. Another way would be to get a gig somewhere that already has a sound system and bring your pc/interface and just line out of thier mixer, take your time setting everything up and cross your fingers for a decent live recording.

"overdubbing", This is basically tracking, which is how your going to get the best recording with your existing interface. Set up a couple of mics in the room. Do a few short warm up takes to get the levels decent. Have the whole band play the songs togather. Record these tracks individually. These tracks are now your "scratch tracks". Now , starting with drums, you can track everything individually using the scratch tracks as the reference the players will be playing along to in thier closed back headphone monitors. Now you have clean individual tracks of each instrument to mix/EQ and you can drop the scratch track. This method could be even better/easier if everyone had a click track to play to in the beginning and you had more than 2 inputs for drums, but it would be the cheapest/best way using your existing equipment. Maybe someone else will toss out some ideas for you on that,. For Example: (2 tracks are drum overheads in one take, and then have bass(direct in) and drums(kick drum mic) as another 2 track take)? Or using a small 4 channel mixer to sub the drums down to a stereo track,.
Click to expand...

That is so 1980's! lol!

It works but not without a huge lack in personality. Ever try to play drums in separate pieces? It does not work well. I would sooner pay a few hundred for an interface with multiple preamps before spending the time making something work that was not musically natural. That is just me though.

Interesting thought though and it is a possibility. :)
 
ok,. so having the drummer track twice just so you can mic him/her with more than 2 mics is a little on the wacky side. Although I think having the ability for bass and drums to be able to play togather and sync up would be nice. The whole concept is based on being able to track without bleeding all over the place,. as I'm sure you would attempt to avoid as well Jimmy. OP could just as easily stay with 2 tracks(mics) on the drums and probably do fine, but it wouldn't be too difficult to line up a seperately played bass drum track in a daw,. or add a sampled one as far as that goes.

All this brings up a few questions anyways,. What is the OP really trying to accomplish?
OP says, "recording my band in a live situtation with us all playing at once". Which is fine, but what quality/sort of product would the OP
expect to have at the end of this project? Do we have a budget? What kinda mics do we have to work with? What kind of recording enviroment are talking about? I didn't see mention of one, but is there a vocalist?

I'm an overcomplicating things kind of introvert, which is why I probably should just continue lurking here,.lol. I digress.
 
dyermaker8 said:
ok,. so having the drummer track twice just so you can mic him/her with more than 2 mics is a little on the wacky side. Although I think having the ability for bass and drums to be able to play togather and sync up would be nice. The whole concept is based on being able to track without bleeding all over the place,. as I'm sure you would attempt to avoid as well Jimmy. OP could just as easily stay with 2 tracks(mics) on the drums and probably do fine, but it wouldn't be too difficult to line up a seperately played bass drum track in a daw,. or add a sampled one as far as that goes.

All this brings up a few questions anyways,. What is the OP really trying to accomplish?
OP says, "recording my band in a live situtation with us all playing at once". Which is fine, but what quality/sort of product would the OP
expect to have at the end of this project? Do we have a budget? What kinda mics do we have to work with? What kind of recording enviroment are talking about? I didn't see mention of one, but is there a vocalist?

I'm an overcomplicating things kind of introvert, which is why I probably should just continue lurking here,.lol. I digress.
Click to expand...

You bring up very important points.

That is why we are here.

We do not know the specifics of what the OP has as far as room or instruments to be recorded.

Just giving some advice to what we are given. :)
 
Roxul 80 4" thick with a drywall corner bead frame. Super lightweight.

There are also 7 other panels in the room plus two 7.5' Bass traps in the corners behind the desk.

Most of those pix are a few years old. I just haven't had time to update the website. Too busy to care really. :)
 
There is a link somewhere. I build them differently now for more permanent applications but these are perfect for moving around.

Here it is LINK

I did add some wood at the top for reinforcement in my build.
 
Edit: I may have found the flaw in my advice when I read (elsewhere on this forum), "You have to be careful buying usb mixers; some only send the stereo main outs (2-tracks) to the computer.

You have to read the specs and get an interface that send individual channels to the computer."

Again, radio is soooooo simple compared to recording bands!

######


OK, I'm a radio guy, NOT a guy who records bands, so please -all of you- feel free to point out the weaknesses of the following idea.

For years, I used an old Peavey mixer with RCA out and plugged the cables into an analog to USB adapter.

If this fellow needs to go low-price, wouldn't this work for him? I even found a huge board with 8 mic inputs for about the cost of three deluxe pizzas at a Goodwill store. Ended up never using it and donated it back!

I guess the idea is that he can always upgrade the mixer, but right now should invest in the mics, etc.

Good/bad idea? Thanks!
 
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I'm still working on understanding the whole computer DAW world, so I might be way off base here. But is it possible that the easy, cheap way to accomplish this is to spend a couple hundred bucks on a dedicated non-computer DAW (say, a Tascam DP-02 off of ePay), use that to track up to 8 sources, then upload .wav files to the computer for processing?

Edit: Whoops what I shoud have said above is [(say, a Zoom HD-16, or R-16 off of ePay)]. Sorry, I forgot the Tascam DP-02 only has 2 inputs at a time.

Just an idea...
 
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