building a studio space. general advise requested!

M

maus

New member
hello there. i've just registered for the forums here, and i've been perusing some of the other posts in this regard, but i wanted to get some thoughts from the folks about my particular situation.

i have a 20' X 20' garage space to convert into a studio. i measured the internal space, and it's actually more like 19.25' in each direction. the roof is another matter entirely. three of the corners are 9'5", and one is 8'2" (this is due to the non-insulated ceiling being sloped for drainage.

there's a large metal garage door (obviously) along one wall, and then a standard door against another.

i've read books on basic studio acoustics, isolation, absorption, diffusion and the like. so here's my idea...

i'm primarily a film composer, so there won't be a great deal of noise making (unlikely i'll ever track drums in there - the loudest thing might be a cranked AC30 or something along those lines.) for that reason, i'm not too concerned with isolation. i'm also not concerned with a live room vs. control room - i'm happy to make this all one big space to work in (perhaps looking at a vocal iso booth later if i feel i need it.)

the kicker is that i'd like this to double as a home theater since it'll be equipped with a fantastic (albeit flat-response) 5.1 system and HD projector, not to mention optimal acoustic treatments.

so what to do with this jacked up room shape? my thoughts are that i want to build a room-within-a-room type setup. not purely isolated (it'd be on the same concrete slab floor that exists now.

so i want to build four 5" walls (1/2" drywall on 2x4 framing with standard fiberglass insulation, and then place a ceiling of similar construction on top of those four walls - basically just free-standing within the existing structure. the beauty of this is that i can ever-so-slightly angle (lean in) the front and back walls, and impart a slight inward angle on the side walls in a sort of subtle angular hourglass shape (if that makes sense). hey presto i've minimised parallel surfaces and room modes to a certain degree.

couple that with some healthy treatment (both absorption and diffusion) and i should have a pretty good-sounding room.

i'm looking at a fujitsu halcyon as the HVAC, which, if i understand it correctly, requires only a 3" hole for the cooling pipes to get to the actual unit inside from the external unit. i'll consult further with my (very cool 6'6" rasta) HVAC guy in terms of quiet ventilation. i live in venice, CA, so the operating temperatures shouldn't get too out of hand to begin with.

so how does this sound? i'm still in the very early stages here - just going to start building the framework for the inner building this weekend if all goes to plan.

it seems almost like it's too easy though... i know an 8' ceiling isn't ideal - perhaps a bit small for typical tracking acoustics, but it's a damn sight better than the dining room (hardwood floors, 9'x9' box with zero treatment) that i've been operating in.

just wanted to get a sanity-check from like-minded folks and see if there were any outstanding thoughts or concerns.

thanks for reading, and if y'all are interested, i'll keep you posted on the progress!

cheers,
chris morgan,
venice, ca
 
Just a couple things. Make sure not to make a square room. It should not have the same dimension in 2(or 3) directions, even with the hourglass(i think). I might be more inclined to suggest a trapeze shape over an hourglass.

Another thing, reflective floors are good in a studio, as long as you have a reasonably absorptive/sloped ceiling.
 
i'm actually looking to put carpet over the concrete (more for comfort and warmth than acoustic reasons) but that should help with the HF reflections off the concrete.

i realise the perfect square shape imparts problems... the hourglass concept is hard to explain but mathematically i think it should work out... it's kinda like having two trapezoidal halves meeting on the narrow end. plus i want to lean the front and back walls in about 7 degrees or so. do you think having one large trapezoidal shape to the side walls would be better acoustically? i suppose the displacement volume wise would be identical if i used the same angle...

thanks for the reply. this is complicated stuff from a construction standpoint. luckily home depot has a circular miter saw for $99 on sale. ;)

rock on,
chris
 
I bought myself a circular compound miter saw for £25(around $50) :D.

Usually it's a struggle to tame the HF absorption. HF can cause problems, but the worst to tame are definitely bass frequencies.

The majority of budget bass absorption also absorbs at HF, so for even absorption, it's best to keep HF absorption as minimal as possible, ie the floor.

The thicker the absorption the better. It's obviously much easier to add thicker absorption to the ceiling that floor, so this is why we suggest having a reflective floor and absorptive ceiling.

Having both can make the room sound too dead, especially HF.

If you want comfort get yourself a nice big sofa(this will offer lower frequency absorption than carpet) and for warmth get yourself some nice tube pres/mics, a lava lamp and a heater. :D

Unfortunately i'm not too up on my acoustics math. I can calculate some things, but angled walls make this a lot harder.

I suggest trapezoidal so the side walls(and sloped ceiling) reduce your need for first reflection point absorption, ie HF absorption, directing the reflection to the back wall where it can be absorbed, diffused, or both.

If you look at John Sayers' designs, you will see that most follow the same basic trapezoidal design, although most with additions like soffit mounts, absorption, etc.
 
yeah i've been spending a bit of time at the sayer forums as well... planned to get some advise there as well after solidifying my ideas a bit more.

i hear what you're saying about the reflective floor surface, but since this is doubling as a home theater (else my girlfriend would have none of it, i'm sure), comfort and "coziness" are kind of a premium as well.

i do plan to make up for the lost 'liveness' with perhaps some strategically placed diffusers or something along those lines.

i'll read more up on the trapezoidal shape thing.

spent a few minutes at home depot this morning. never would have thought i'd look at a pallet of sheetrock and get excited about it. =)

thanks for the conversation!

cheers,
chris
 
maus said:
yeah i've been spending a bit of time at the sayer forums as well... planned to get some advise there as well after solidifying my ideas a bit more.

i hear what you're saying about the reflective floor surface, but since this is doubling as a home theater (else my girlfriend would have none of it, i'm sure), comfort and "coziness" are kind of a premium as well.

i do plan to make up for the lost 'liveness' with perhaps some strategically placed diffusers or something along those lines.

i'll read more up on the trapezoidal shape thing.

spent a few minutes at home depot this morning. never would have thought i'd look at a pallet of sheetrock and get excited about it. =)

thanks for the conversation!

cheers,
chris
Click to expand...
One thing you could do, is have a reflective floor with a big rug. Roll it up when using the room for the studio and leave it in a corner(floor>wall corner) and it should absorb more bass than it would spread out. When using the room as a home theatre, simply roll it out, and you have a HF floor first reflection absorber.

Have a look at John Sayers designs, and you will see almost all his control rooms have a trapezoidal shape. The backs of the rooms have bass absorbers which distract from the trapeze shape, but the basic shape is that.

K i'm drawing up a quick diagram. I'd recommend a different monitor setup for mixing a home theatre, unless you wanna have to move them about every time you use one or the other. If for nothing more but to give you reference. The grey are theatre and black are studio. Hope you are able to decipher it. Now it's time for my bed.
 

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wow, thanks for taking the time to do that!

that looks like a great layout concept - and the idea of an area rug never ocurred to me... that's a great idea. not to mention the storage space is a bonus. my girlfriend said she needs to be able to store her shovel. shovel? still haven't figured out why she needs a shovel. not like it snows here...

anyways...

i'd pretty much come to the conclusion that i'd need two monitor setups, so that's a good call.

really appreciate your thoughts on this... looks like i have some decisions to make here. =)

cheers,
chris
 
maus said:
wow, thanks for taking the time to do that!

that looks like a great layout concept - and the idea of an area rug never ocurred to me... that's a great idea. not to mention the storage space is a bonus. my girlfriend said she needs to be able to store her shovel. shovel? still haven't figured out why she needs a shovel. not like it snows here...

anyways...

i'd pretty much come to the conclusion that i'd need two monitor setups, so that's a good call.

really appreciate your thoughts on this... looks like i have some decisions to make here. =)

cheers,
chris
Click to expand...

Heck, just build a little shed outside to store tools in!

Tim
 
maus said:
wow, thanks for taking the time to do that!

that looks like a great layout concept - and the idea of an area rug never ocurred to me... that's a great idea. not to mention the storage space is a bonus. my girlfriend said she needs to be able to store her shovel. shovel? still haven't figured out why she needs a shovel. not like it snows here...

anyways...

i'd pretty much come to the conclusion that i'd need two monitor setups, so that's a good call.

really appreciate your thoughts on this... looks like i have some decisions to make here. =)

cheers,
chris
Click to expand...
Glad you appreciate/like it. I'm not sure of the angles, but i think it needs to be at least 1" every 1', if you get what i mean. Definitely check up on that before you build.

I'd also put that design past other people, especially over at john sayers, to get it checked out/refined. I'm more used to giving basic suggestions on existing rectangular rooms.

Remember, I'm not a pro or anything, just an amature who's read up on acoustics quite a lot. Loads would say i'm still a kid, 20. I will be professional soon, acoustics is a part of my new business, although i'm nothing close to being an expert.
 
design the control room based on master video edit suites so you have both the CR and the home theater in one :-) usually this involves having the floor staged so the mix position is at one level and viewer at the next level, but all within the 5.1 (or 20.2.2) field. as far as sizing, the full space of the garage might be too large given (most likely) a ceiling height constraint as well as monitor size etc. so you'll have plenty left over for storage, isobooth (amp room or vox over) etc.
 
gullfo said:
design the control room based on master video edit suites so you have both the CR and the home theater in one :-) usually this involves having the floor staged so the mix position is at one level and viewer at the next level, but all within the 5.1 (or 20.2.2) field. as far as sizing, the full space of the garage might be too large given (most likely) a ceiling height constraint as well as monitor size etc. so you'll have plenty left over for storage, isobooth (amp room or vox over) etc.
Click to expand...
Could you go into a bit more detail/explain?
 
maus said:
my girlfriend said she needs to be able to store her shovel. shovel? still haven't figured out why she needs a shovel. not like it snows here...
Click to expand...


I think I would deal with this before I even thought about building a studio! :eek:
 
gullfo said:
here's some examples:

http://www.jeffcooper.com/projects/postpro.htm
http://www.jeffcooper.com/projects/hometheatres.htm
http://www.whitemark.com/show_client.php?client_id=73&sub_cat_id=6
http://www.whitemark.com/show_client.php?client_id=4&sub_cat_id=6
Click to expand...
Thanks. Still don't quite get it, coz they don't appear, to me at least, to be both studios and home theatres.

What do you mean by "the 5.1 (or 20.2.2) field"?

And are you saying to have the viewer higher than the mix position? Could you explain why this would be done?
 
pandamonk said:
Thanks. Still don't quite get it, coz they don't appear, to me at least, to be both studios and home theatres.

What do you mean by "the 5.1 (or 20.2.2) field"?

And are you saying to have the viewer higher than the mix position? Could you explain why this would be done?
Click to expand...

He's talking about a setup like the first pic except put the rear viewing seats on an elevated riser.
 
hey all!

some interesting thoughts here...

the shovel thing... well... i'm just pretending it's not as bad as it sounds.

in terms of a smaller room... i was considering that today... i liked the idea of a larger space but it might not be practical acoustically speaking. i kinda like the idea of the two-level approach as well... so i'm considering the examples you've sent along.

what initially started as a simple sound treatment and heating of a garage is quickly turning into a rather massive project. suppose that's the nature of it.

thanks for the advise... i'll be making some decisions soon here and will keep everyone updated. =)

cheers,
chris
 
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