ARC System 2 (Advanced Room Correction) software...works or not?

miroslav

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
This is a segue from a thread in the MP3 Forum:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...-take-all-1st-mix-using-arc2-software-365541/


I've seen the ARC stuff mentioned in the past, so I'm curious who is using it, why, and your opinion....and also general pros/cons anyone wishes to offer.

My question, as I asked in the MP3 Forum thread is this:
If you've already gone through the process of learning your monitors and room, and learning how a mix should sound on them in order to translate on other sound systems....would the ARC software be useful?

Is the ARC system a crutch, a solution, a problem.....?
Does it really help you to overcome any/all room/monitor issues…or is it more of a “snake-oil” product?
If it works and does what it claims….where does that put the whole “you need room treatment” mentality….?

This should be fun! :)
 
It takes the problematic frequencies out. So it makes a "bad" room even less accurate (long story short).

You can't defeat physics.
 
Yeah...I was wondering how it did it's thing.
I see people here and on Gearslutz who are using it and claiming that it's improved their mixes dramatically...so what's the real deal?
Is it doing some sort of sonic mind trick on those people who say that?
 
I had bought the original ARC system about 2 years ago to use in my spare bedroom studio with my KRKs.
Sadly I never got around to using it properly because it was quiet an involved process for my gear cramped room. (Placing the mic here and there isn't easy when drums and guitar and etc and etc are around isn't the easiest thing in the world when you're already fighting for time to make music!)
I ultimately realized what "learning your system" means, and am confident that that is the best route to go for me since so far the stuff I have done translates perfectly (I did also upgrade to some Focal monitors :D so that might have something to do with it).
But I know that means nothing since I don't have mixes for you to listen to.


IK makes great stuff. I LOVE their various software programs, and their hardware is awesome too.
So, I don't doubt that this can do what it's saying. I just don't believe it's necessary. Because like you said Miro, the "learn your system" thing will still apply. Only difference being that now your system has an extra layer to learn.

Ah-hah! Here's a quote from Mr. Ethan Winer:

Ethan Winer said:
I'm not a fan of room "correction" software because it's mostly a sham. ARC is based on the Audyssey system, which I tested and reported on in detail here:

Audyssey Report

I won't say it's totally useless, but there are much better ways to improve the acoustics in a room.

--Ethan
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I've read Ethan's review once before.
I've been aware of the ARC System....but there's always this feeling I have that some level of "smoke-n-mirrors" is being used by these correction algorithms to "make it work".
The concept sounds simple enough...measure your room for various frequencies responses, at several points, apply corrective EQ, and you've fixed your problems.....but it's not that cut-n-dry.
It's like first the room is fooling you with it's problems, then you have this add-on process that is fooling you a second time with it's corrections.
I dunno...maybe it's the "two negatives make a positive" thing....:D....but like I said, it just doesn't feel like the best approach.

That said.....there's all these people who swear their mixes improved and translated better than ever after employing the ARC System in their not-so-perfect rooms.
There was some review I read where a relative audio pro said he moved into a new room that was absolutely horrible sounding. THen he added the ARC System and now prefers mixing in that "horrible" room over the "better room" he use to be in.
I dunno....it's hard to get a clear handle, but if the "smoke-n-mirrors" give you a better end-product, will people care why/how it's doing it, and/or prefer NOT to use something like ARC that's cheaper/easier to implement....compared to building a more perfect room....???

Just food for thought and discussion.....I'm not leaning in either direction at this point. :)
 
miroslav said:
Yes, I've read Ethan's review once before.
Click to expand...

Maybe read it again because it explains all of this in great detail.

there's all these people who swear their mixes improved and translated better than ever after employing the ARC System in their not-so-perfect rooms.
Click to expand...

How successful room EQ can be depends on the room. In most home-size rooms the main problem is nulls and ringing, and EQ does nothing for that. But in rooms where peaks are the larger problem, EQ can help a little. The nulls and ringing are still there, but subjectively the sound can seem better. Also, as with all products, don't discount people praising a product because they won't admit they spent a lot of money on something that doesn't work very well. :D

--Ethan
 
I read it again earlier today. :)
I'm just trying to connect the dots between ---- knowing that the correction is just a band-aid of sorts....to why some people are swearing by their improved mix translation results on other sound systems after applying the correction during their mixing.

There were a few folks who said the ARC system took some tweaking and getting use to before the heard improvements....but the majority of users were tossing out all kinds of WOW! comments and praise, so I have to wonder what accounts for that?
I would find it hard to believe that everyone was just too embarrassed to admit the ARC system purchase was waste of money.
Which then brings the whole "Is it worth it?" question back around again.

Even the kid recording in his bedroom may find it not all that expensive at $300, compared to buying/installing a lot of acoustic treatment, especially it they're hesitant because of the aesthetic aspect of hanging panels all over a bedroom/living room/family room situation...but even the guys who have more flexibility and studio-only purpose rooms, it may appeal more over other acoustic options....or in combination with acoustic treatment.
Not to mentoin, not everyone will want to hang 40 bass traps in their studio...:D....which may be helpful for the acoustics, but can suck up a lot of useable space in a room....unless you can afford a HUGE studio space.

I'm not arguing in favor for or against it....just trying to asses the actual net gain or loss from using the ARC system, as opposed to just treating your room as best as you can, and then learning to mix in it with all its quirks.
Maybe the bigger question is if there is any net loss to using the ARC system, regardless of your room treatment situation...? Does it cause more problems than solutions, regardless of your room treatment...?
 
miroslav said:
the majority of users were tossing out all kinds of WOW! comments and praise, so I have to wonder what accounts for that?
Click to expand...

I've seen as many negative comments as positive comments. One common comment I see is "At first I thought it really helped, but now I don't use it any more." Maybe we need a poll? :D

I would find it hard to believe that everyone was just too embarrassed to admit the ARC system purchase was waste of money.
Click to expand...

Sure. Again, how much it helps or not depends on the room. In the nearly cube room I tested, it really did help a little. And as mentioned in my article, I use one band of EQ cut in my own living room system. So EQ can help as long as you don't expect too much. But it's never a substitute for bass traps as some people believe. The current wisdom among "room experts" is that EQ can help as icing on the cake, after bass traps and other acoustic treatment is in place. But the idea that someone can spend $300 for ARC and not have to deal with acoustic treatment is simply wishful thinking.

Does it cause more problems than solutions, regardless of your room treatment?
Click to expand...

Yes, it can definitely make things worse! But you can adjust it manually to not "correct" frequencies it analyzed poorly.

--Ethan
 
In my experience, it works GREAT if you plan on leaving your head in the one spot that you're measuring. xD
It technically takes about 9 measurements or something if I remember correctly, but if you move your head too far left or right from where the measurement was first taken, you've got a whole new mess of issues.
 
I like to change my mix position a lot when working. My setup has a fairly wide sweet spot, but sometimes I'm right up against the console leaning in...sometimes I may be back a foot....and often I also like to roll back the chair away form the console and out of the "hype zone", especially if I turn up the monitor level a bit.
Not to mention, I'll also get up and go to the back wall, or walk around well away from the monitors.

Now I know the sound changes when you move around that much with any system, but I'm already familiar with my setup. So I wouldn't want to add something like the ARC system if it was going to create all kinds of new weirdnesses outside of the tight sweet spot it's supposed to work in.

Like I said....I'm not arguing for or against....I just keep seeing this stuff pop up on forums, and I 'm looking to sift through the positive and negative experiences people have had using it.
I'm not dropping $300 just to try it....:D....but it would be interesting to hear a with and without mix in my space, then it would quickly be evident if it's more a benefit or just yet another system to learn how to mix with...which I've already done with my monitors and room.
 
Personally, after using a bit, I decided it'd be worth it more to pay the $300 for better treatment than anything. I mean, I never liked the sound of it anyway, but my boss had just bought it and was testing it out, so we used it for a bit. As far as I know, he isn't using it anymore because he and I are just like you. We move around too much (especially with outboard gear) to be able to use it.
 
miroslav said:
I'm not dropping $300 just to try it....:D....but it would be interesting to hear a with and without mix in my space, then it would quickly be evident if it's more a benefit or just yet another system to learn how to mix with...which I've already done with my monitors and room.
Click to expand...

If I would've seen this a few days ago I would've sent you my system 1!
Seriously.

I literally JUST threw it out last weekend. Just threw it away with old boxes.

I definitely didn't spend $300 on it though!
I think I just spent $100 because it was a few months before the intro. of ARC 2 and I had a friend that set me up with a discount!
 
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