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Thread: Am I being ripped off?

  1. #21
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    Rotate your mix location to the opposite wall...take that one corner bass trap and place it up above and across, where the ceiling meets the windows.
    Then you are firing back to the other wall where there are two vertical traps...and no unbalanced issues.

    The cloud will still work on the opposite wall, right at the window height...with the bass trap just above it running across.
    Everything else pretty much stays where it is.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
    I have the same problem, but felt that trapping 3 corners was better than 2, since it will at least mitigate some of that bass build-up. I don't sit in that corner to mix or record - doing most of the work where the clouds and side panels are going to be effective. And, in my small space, recording is generally done with relatively close micing, so the room's problems are largely not present. (Lately I've been trying some single mic stuff at different distances - the room rears its ugly head pretty quickly...)

    It's rare in a room in a house, i.e., that's been repurposed and not build for audio, to not have a door in a corner, and small(er) bedrooms have windows placed "wherever" and a closet door (in the states, anyway), too.

    I've got a fair amount of "stuff" on my back wall, and can open the door much of the time for mixing to see if it makes a difference. And, there's a couple gobos I could move around if I felt it was necessary, but I never have.
    Yes, my room has one of those corner doors, too. But there is just enough clearance that I put floor-to-ceiling traps flat against that wall (behind the door when it is open, right up to the corner when the door is closed.

    Traps behind the monitor speakers is less an issue if you have front-firing bass ports.

    I like Miro's idea of setting up the desk facing the windows.
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

  3. #23
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    Never be afraid to try things. When I converted my two rooms into one bigger one - not huge but nice, I tried moving the speakers around and now I have my speakers on the half way line, facing towards the closed end, with treatment on the walls and ceiling, and the space in front of me can have a performer in it, or be used for videos - a bit like you'd more often see in a radio studio where you have a guest in front of the presenter. I really love it, but it was a happy accident.

  4. #24
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    My room is possibly in the "worst case scenario" circle on the venn diagram. It's square (11'x11') with an 8' ceiling. Besides the entry door, there's a closet door in the middle of the same wall as the entry door, an attic (space over 1st floor) access door in the next corner (moving around counter clockwise) which I do have a corner, floor-to-celing bass trap in front of because access is only required for water heater or leak problems and the occasional varmint inspections . Next wall is the desk and speakers, then another corner trap. The next wall has a large window almost in the corner, so a heavy, blocking drape goes there. Around to another corner trap, and then the rear wall with *another* door to the shared bathroom (though it's blocked by a short set of "cubbies" topped by a gobo) and a large, heavy antique quilt covers most of the rest of the wall, back to the entry door. I do have a pair of clouds over my mixing spot, which is more or less where most acoustic guitar is recorded, too. But the rest of the ceiling has a ceiling fan/light and another (pull down stairs) attic access door. I literally have no place to put anything else on the ceiling, and with its height and small room, putting traps at the wall-ceiling join was going to make it start feeling even more claustrophobic! I'm in the process of trying to get rid of stuff now...
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

  5. #25
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    My advice to anyone building a studio, particularly without a great deal of experience, is to spend a modest 30 sterling on the latest edition of F Alton-Everest's book 'The Master Handbook of Acoustics'. It's the standard widely respected practical work on everything to do with sound, and how and in what sort of space to capture it, and what treatments actually work and why they work in terms of easily understandable physics, including a study of really high end studios. You'll never regret it, and it could save you a fair bit of cash spent on gear that doesn't produce what you want.

  6. #26
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    Maybe I am too miserly in my approach to my home recording studio, or maybe I am completely out of touch with modern studio design - especially home recording studios; but I have been in multitrack recording since 1967, and I have never had a room treatment anything like that which you are considering. Still, I have made some pretty decent and good-sounding recordings here. I have taken the approach of minimal use of open mikes which could pick up extraneous noise. Keyboard, guitar, bass, drum machine, and even autoharp - all are connected to a mixing board with patch cords when needed. If the piece underway is an instrumental, there will never be an open mike during the recording.
    I have a variety of settings in reverb, delay, eq, and the like to give my recordings more of a live sound with panning to give the effect of musicians spread across the stereo field. Since I use good-quality headphones to monitor my work as I record the tracks of a song, I don't have to worry a lot about sound reflection in my home recording studio.
    What kind of electronics and other equipment do you have or have planned for this studio? If my understanding is anywhere near correct, you might spend around $4000 for JUST THE STUDIO TREATMENT. If you would spend that amount of money, you would not then want to buy cheap electronics. By the way, are you planning any treatment for the floor of your recording studio? I may have missed something along that line, but i didn't see anything about floor treatment. You know, of course, that a floor stand for a mike can transfer vibrations into a mike unless you have some provision for at least a minimum amount of isolation.
    Further, what is your goal, purpose, or planned use for the material you record? This question is valid because it might well make the main difference between your plan for studio treatment and mine for a minimum of open mikes, headphone monitoring, and no studio treatment other than closing the two doors which give entrance to my studio. If you are trying to make high-quality recordings for commercial use on which you hope to recover the cost of the treatment or maybe even make a profit - if this operation is going to be a job rather than a hobby, then maybe you need some kind of treatment for your recording studio; but in my case, I am recording as a hobby for my own enjoyment and sometimes for a friend or relative. Bear in mind that a goodly amount of the music which was recorded in the hayday of rock-and-roll music was recorded in rooms far less than the ideal recording studio, but they were commercially successful in that the records were chart-topping hits. One hit recording was made in a church basement with a piano that could have used a tuning before the recording session. Perhaps where I am going here is to say that you should, before you lay out your money or sign a contract for studio treatment, give VERY CAREFUL CONSIDERATION to your priorities in connection with your musical endeavor and in your life in general.
    Have you looked into other bids or quotes for treatment of your studio? I have heard many times that when a large project is undertaken, it is wise to obtain at least two bids, and preferably three on which you shoot the same desired specs to all of them. I admit that i cannot give you an answer as to whether you would be "taken" if you were to use the person who gave you the figures you have presented to us; but if I have given you pause to think things through a bit more before you plop down your money or slide your card, then I have perhaps given you some benefit. There is definitely a possibility of going into a project with great enthusiasm spending bundles of bucks either on super-expensive electronics or high-priced studio setups but failing to produce anything of note because they had more bucks than skill, musicianship and knowledge of their objective and how to reach it. Whatever you decide to do in your studio, make sure that you HAVE FUN!

  7. #27
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    @miroslav

    Thanks for the input, I'll take it into consideration.

    ---------- Update ----------
    @Duncan

    Thanks, I'll check it out.

  8. #28
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    @hautbois16

    I appreciate your perspective, and you've definitely made me think about a few things, so thanks.

    My goal is to basically produce decent recordings of acoustic fingerstyle/classical guitar pieces and post them to a Youtube channel. Some people have managed to do so to great financial/artistic success, others less so. If I can eventually make it into the former camp, great! My rationale for the studio treatment was that if I can maximise my odds of success by getting the studio treatment then I may as well do so—and if it doesn't work out, at least I'll have a better environment within which to record music for my own pleasure.

    You've given me pause re the possibility of mixing solely with headphones, thus circumventing the financial cut that will ensue from the studio plan I've been quoted. I was under the impression that exclusively mixing on headphones was a no-go, but having done some cursory google searching it seems that there is a greater diversity of thought on that than I was previously aware. So that definitely throws a spanner in the works! But it's a spanner that could potentially save me a lot of money...the plot thickens.

    That said, if I do go through with this plan, I won't be spending a whole lot more on electronics, as I already have mics, guitars and DAW. The only other thing I'd need to get would be monitors. And the studio treatment might help with recordings in addition to mixing too.

    Question for everyone—what do you all think of the viability of mixing on headphones?

  9. #29
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    @hautbois16

    Ps. Yes I'm waiting to hear back for other quotes/plans. I was quoted just over 2k by another company, for example, but I haven't closely looked into the specific plan/set-up they've advising yet.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobrato View Post
    Question for everyone—what do you all think of the viability of mixing on headphones?
    Well, it can be done.
    But it is a somewhat nuanced topic. It makes no sense to me when people say things like "never mix on headphones" or "it can't be done." That's just too absolute for something one cannot possibly know the answer to, namely, how will a particular individual acclimatize to mixing on phones. And the truth is that most people relate to their own experience or try to blind with science, when in reality, it ultimately comes down to one thing; can the individual asking the question of whether it can be done actually do it and get good mixes that sound good across a variety of playback mediums ?
    Eventually......
    Because part of the nuance is time, patience and practice. It's all very well asking if headphones can be mixed on but time and experience has taught me that a more important question is > do I have the patience to learn how to mix in such a way that my mixes sound good on a variety of mediums ? And in truth, whether headphones or the best monitors going, the same will apply. You will need to spend time and perhaps some frustration in getting to know your mixing medium and how what you are hearing may be affected by the room you are in and where in the room you are in or the way your ears are engaging with the phones, and what things need to sound like either in the phones or monitors for them to sound acceptable on other playback mediums in other spaces. So on the one hand, it's not as easy as simply "can one mix on headphones" but paradoxically, with time, resilience and practice, it can be done.
    Having said all that, I personally prefer monitors with headphone assistance. But there have been times when a mix just wasn't coming together on my monitors no matter what I tried so in a last throw of the dice I used just my headphones and that's what worked. I don't even know why !
    If a person started their mix life on phones and that was all they used then obviously, they would get better and eventually good at it. And the same is true of monitors. Some people just use their stereo speakers and when I hear their mixes, I hear no problems with them.

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